Jump to content
The Education Forum

I think this may be the man who shot JFK from the Grassy Knoll

Recommended Posts

Lets solve the cropping issue of Towner #3 first.

I would like to see the full, uncropped, version of Towner #3 in the public domain. Wouldn't you?

Don't you think it should be available to the public?

I would like to see people like Jim DiEugenio , Josiah Thompson and Bill Kelly request that it be made public.

Or better yet, the entire membership of this forum.

Isn't it in the public interest that the complete photographic record be made public?

If the title of this thread bothers you , you have my permission to change it. ( You have changed the title of my threads before)

You can change it to "The Towner #3 Photo"

This is too important an issue to be swept under the rug and forgotten.

Edited by Mike Rago
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 48
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I would like to know the history of the Towner #3 publication.

I know Groden published it in "The Killing of a President"(Nov 1 1993) - Uncropped Version

I suspect that Trask published it in "Pictures of the Pain" (March 10 1994)

(should be on page 217 in Pictures of the Pain)

Are there any publications of this picture before Groden published?

Found this record in the NARA database. It indicates that Tina Towner sent some photos to the HSCA.

Note the COMMENT :

Comment: Folder list in Box 1. Some material subject to copyright provisions. Box 8.


Edited by Mike Rago
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my view, this is irresponsible research. How can one seriously claim that the man seen may be the shooter from the Grassy Knoll?


What makes him suspect?

Moreover, even IF true, there are absolutely no identifying features to be obtained from the very limited amount of information available

in this photo. I see no value in pursuing this line of inquiry.

I disagree. His body has a look of someone sneaking out from some place. He's suspicious. I don't see the harm of investigating further. It's not a waste of time.

Kathy C

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know what I am about to post is controversial. It is not my intent to post it because it is controversial. I am not baiting anyone to read my posts. I am posting this because I think it is true. I want to state my case in its entirety. That is the only reason.

I think the following are two pictures of the same person.

The picture on the left is a blowup of the grassy knoll portion of the Betzner 3 photo. The photo on the right is the man on the steps in Towner #3

The Betzner photo was taken 7 seconds before the headshots. The Towner 3 was taken about 68 seconds after the final headshots.


The man in the left picture I am referring to is behind "Black Dog Man".

I made this gif to make him easier to see...


Both men have a white undershirt on. Both men exhibit the same wide arm posture.

Here is a wider view...


Here is a link to the original scan from which these crops were made.

The original is a high resolution scan made by John Costella from the Betzner 3 photo published in the November 24, 1967 issue of Life Magazine.


Edited by Mike Rago
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is fortunate that Zapruder and Sitzman are in the same photograph. I have circled Zapruder and Sitzman and you can see that the man in question is the same size as Zapruder and/or Sitzman.


The shooter on the Knoll used a hand gun, not a rifle.

He was dressed "like" a policeman, except he did not have a hat, did not have a tie and did not have a badge.

He was standing behind "Black Dog" man.

"Black Dog Man" are truely innocent victims.

The Betzner 3 photo was not analyzed by the HSCA or the Warren Commission. The original negative(which would have allowed enhancements) was never found.

I think he used a gun similar to this one. (Yes I know this is a gun from 1990 but I am sure they had similar guns back in the 60's)


Specs ( Note length with suppressor 16.65 inches)


And...we know the shot from the Knoll was not from a rifle because of this ITTC experiment.

Edited by Mike Rago
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
Guest Tom Scully


He was standing behind "Black Dog" man.

"Black Dog Man" are truely innocent victims.


"innocent victims." Of what? Were (you used the plural) "Black Dog Man" physically harmed in any way? Did "Black Dog Man" have trouble obtaining a job or a place to live at anytime after 22 November? Are you saying "Black Dog Man" is wrongly accused of something, defamed?

Do you see the problem that makes what you are doing a total waste of your time and wastes space on the front page of this forum's thread list? Your lament of "innocent victim" status of "Black Dog Man" is ridiculous, but it reveals that it is irrevelant to you that "Black Dog Man" has no identity in the actual world, in history. None of the visual aspects that draw your attention and analysis can ever be identified, much less accused of anything that would ever be consequential to the historical narrative or to the opinions of researchers, the media, or the public.

It can be argued that you are a victim, Mike, of a pursuit that can result in no leads that can ever be built on. You are a person wasting his time and you "victimize" the audience you manage to attract, of moments lost (opportunity cost) while they consider and react to what you present. "Black Dog Man" is a blur, a blob then, now, and forever.

Does it occur to you at all that the detailed image of a weapon you posted can never actually be identified to any degree of certainty in any image you can present? Have you even considered why you are the only one doing what you are doing? Isn't a waste of time a pursuit that has such a low probability of a meaningful outcome that it is not worth the investment of time and effort?

Edited by Tom Scully
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are wrong tom. You are a victim of your own prejudice.

In this entire thread you focus on that one sentence on Black Dog Man?

Black Dog Man is a blur, but the image occurs in 3 different photos. And there is useful information in those images that can be used to identify the person to an extent. It is not a useless exercise, far from it. If you have the courage, which you do not, to enter this world then I will be most happy to debate that image with you. But you have to be willing to look at it and respond honestly.

There is useful information in that "blur" but you have to have be willing to look for it, you do not just discard it by saying it is too hard.

It is precisely because that person has no identity that it is important to investigate it closely. That person was innocent and there is enough information to indicate that but you have to be willing to look at the data.

But Black Dog Man is not the subject of this thread.

Edited by Mike Rago
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Tom Scully

Mike, what is the most significant, original detail(s) that has resulted from your image interpretation efforts, and how many years have you been engaged in this? In other words, what is the most important information that is now known that would not exist in the current body of Kennedy Assassination knowledge if not for your efforts?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am not going to side track this thread along your path. If you want to talk about your subject start another thread. This one is too important. I dug up this thread in order to satisfy your prejudice in a different thread.

There are a few people who are capable of following what I am doing, you are not one of them.

The mere fact that you are threatened by the introduction of 3D models says alot. You look upon it as a negative , something that needs to be attacked and beaten down, when in fact it is a positive.

As I said, you are blinded by your own prejudice.

Edited by Mike Rago
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a frame from a James Darnell Film.

This frame was snapped about 15 seconds before Towner #3

People can be seen inside the Pergola Shelter.


Here is a blowup of the doorway to the Pergola Shelter.



In the following image the top of the pergola shelter has been removed so we can see inside the shelter and observe the internal structure.

(click on image to enlarge it)


Edited by Mike Rago
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in

Sign In Now
  • Create New...