Mike Rago Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 I do not think that Sitzman's name is mentioned in either the Warren Commission Report or the HSCA. I know that Zapruder did not mention her name, referring to her only as "his girl" or something like that and the lawyer did not ask for her name. Even after the HSCA made a finding that a shot was fired from the Grassy Knoll she was not called to testify before the HSCA (unless I missed it) I did a search of the NARA database for Zapruder and got 662 hits. I did same search for Sitzman and got zero hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 (edited) mike Marilyn was not called by the w/c as so many others were not, like the Newmans, and many others, nor was she interviewed by the authoritys when they visited Dallas, to interview the witnesses...therefore there is no mention of her name within.nor many others, it appeared that the closer the witness to the assassination, the further away they stayed.....b The President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/ Edited July 24, 2012 by Bernice Moore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 http://www.kenrahn.com/jfk/the_critics/fonzi/WC_Truth_Specter/WC_Truth_Specter.html The Warren Commission, The Truth, and Arlen Specter By Gaeton Fonzi Greater Philadelphia Magazine, 1 August 1966 From the reports, the staff lawyers had to decide what witnesses would be questioned further, which should be brought to testify before the formal hearings of the Commission (only 94 of the 552 who provided testimony finally were), what questions needed further investigation and what details were relevant or irrelevant. There were no independent investigators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rago Posted July 24, 2012 Author Share Posted July 24, 2012 (edited) Thank You Bernice. I just want to add that what makes Sitzman different from all the other knoll witnesses is she said that she did not hear a shot from the knoll. She contradicted a lot of other witnesses. Would like to add one more observation.... During the WC Zapruder was alive. During the HSCA Zapruder was not alive, leaving Sitzman as the only living witness on that pedestal. Edited July 24, 2012 by Mike Rago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) Hi Mike : There were many they apparently did not want to hear from..... On the MWKK.....1988....as far as the Zapruder film is concerned.......Marilyn says.... Quote " He started filming about .....oh....just before they came around the corner......and then we heard what to me sounded like two firecrackers...it was starting to get a little confusing because you could see things happening in the car..." and on.....So she does in her own Quotable words, state that he did start to film the motorcade as they just started to turn the corner....so where is the film showing it.?? That is another question .. on not being interviewed: '' Marilyn Sitzman: quote...""I was totally ignored. Nobody from Warren [Commission]talked to me, nobody from the FBI, none of the Secret Service, nobody, absolutely nothing. After I had gone to the office, nobody could have cared if I dropped dead myself. ...it was 1963, I was female, and I was young. And I was irrelevant.." On the video "Image of an Assassination: Another Look at the Zapruder Film " released in 1988 Marilyn says. "when they started making their first turn, turning into the street, he said, o.k. here we go, or something to that effect '' Edited July 27, 2012 by Bernice Moore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rago Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) If they ignored her i do not think it was because she was "irrelevant". (I know that is her word and not your word) If they ignored her it was because she was very relevant, but not to the result they wanted. She could not help their case, either the WC or the HSCA. Edited July 25, 2012 by Mike Rago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) Mike this was from the Life magazine interview fwiw..there is, was, also a short video clip that went with this still available, and her interview for TMWKK on utube if interested, they can be found within the video links..b HERE'S JUST ONE... THIS IS THE INTERVIEW THAT SHE DID ON the knoll, after the assassination with a reporter i believe from the DMN ,sorry caps, sorry right now i cannot recall the reporters name, perhaps some else can..and there is of course no sound..bfwiw, you will see a difference within her information in the life interview as.......?..it has been researched and found that some researchers believe that she zap and the hesters to be in the pergola, immediately after the assassination as seen in . in the Bond ,Rickerby & Stoughton, photos..and in the questionable Altgens 8........ but as in the posted photo info from life she has stated more than once as well as Zapruder himself, that he went straight back to the office......b Edited July 25, 2012 by Bernice Moore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) mike here's a bit more, fyi..Also she speaks of talking to two men, FBI types, after runniing down the hill, before running back up and peering, out the back of the Pergola....but she is not seen within any of the film taken within the park, talking to two men, after the assassination....but was photographed talking to a reporter and being interviewed.. A receptionist, who it is said to be situated behind and holding onto Zapruder, on the pedestal, also states in her Doctors video tape, that when she turned ,he was gone…she was left standing there alone…and there were other changes..along the years... This information also points towards, that it was not Zapruder seen in the Pergola along with her,and ?... in the Bond ,Rickerby & Stoughton, photos..nor in the questionable Altgens 8.....immediately after the assassination....If as she has stated more than once as well as Zapruder himself, that he went straight back to the office...... Q: When you got to your office what, if anything, did you do with regard to your movie camera and films? A: I had my secretary call either the police or the FBI, I don't remember which. She called somebody. The Secret Service. Q: After this did you do anything in regard to your film? Did you go anywhere with your film? A: Yes, sir, a patrol car came and took me down to a station where they were trying to develop films, but they hadn't got the facilities to develop colored film. We called the Eastman Kodak people and made arrangements for them to develop the film. We went to the Eastman people. Q: After going to the Eastman people did you go anywhere else with your film? A: Yes. They advised me not to cut the film. This was 8 millimeter of the old type that was actually a 16 millimeter film, it was cut after it was developed, and they advised me to go to another -- I think it was Jamieson film, or something like that, to have them developed there into a 16, and they were to somehow process it and split 8 millimeter, and that's what I did. Q: As a result of going with your film to these various locations, Mr. Zapruder, did you have in your possession a developed roll of film, and if so, how many of them? A: The first time the Jamieson people developed the original 16 millimeter, then copies were made at Eastman. I had three copies plus the original. Q: What, if anything, did you do with the three copies and one original? A: One copy was given to the Dallas Secret Service, and one they asked me to bring over to somewhere on Akard Street, I believe it was the FBI or Secret Service, to give them a copy to be sent to Washington. I think it was sent to Washington the same night by Army plane. One copy was given to Life Magazine. Q: During the time your film was being processed, were you present, sir? A: Yes, sir, I was. Q: On that particular day did you have occasion to view what your film showed? A: Yes, the same evening I saw this film. ************************** Marilyn Sitzman, also states in Doctor Stower's tape, under hypnosis that when she turned, he was gone…she was left standing there alone…and that Zapruder went straight back to the office....She also confirmed this below on the history net information... Dr.Stower: Hypnosis Institute of Texas JFK Assasination Center in Dallas. http://www.hypnosisworld.com/p10.htm Even within the doctors information, the spelling of her name is incorrect, it seemed like anything and everything that could possibly go wrong, will and did, but it is Marilyn on the tape, i have a copy, bought some years back, i am astounded now at the price asked, but...the way it is...Note; Marilyn gave the information that was taped to her Doctor, three months before she died of cancer, on Aug.11.1993..b Trouble is Marilyn's story changed, in several recalls over time.....it just happened...as with others... ""Marilyn Sitzman: As I came down that street Mr. Zapruder and a couple of the other women were standing up on the [grassy knoll]. The first part of that film shows me walking up towards him. And I got up there, he turned off the camera, and we're talking about, well, where could he stand...because by that time, there's quite a few people gathering. And we'd go look at this place, and we'd go look at that place. We went over to where that concrete pergola was, and we decided that would be the best place because, I says: "You can get up here. You'll be above everybody. No matter how many people are down there, you won't have anybody blocking your view." And so, he said...he had vertigo, though. If he got up there, he'd get dizzy. So, he says, "You'll have to stand behind me and hold onto me." I says, "It's no problem at all." So we both got up there, and I stood behind him, and I held on to him. When they started to make their first turn...turning into the street, he [Zapruder] said, "OK, here we go." ...That's when I remember he started actually doing the filming. They turned the corner and they started coming down...and the first thing I remember hearing was what I thought was firecrackers because Kennedy threw his hands up, and I heard "bang, bang." There could have been a third "bang," I can't swear to that one. But I know there were two "bangs" very close together, and I thought they were firecrackers because his arms were going into the air, and it was way off to my left and above. I'm just kind of like..."what a stupid thing to throw firecrackers," and as they came down...the last shot that we heard was right in front of us and it was like the same sound...far off and to the left...but I saw his head open up....So, of course, by this time I knew it wasn't firecrackers. When we got down, Mr. Zapruder apparently went directly back to the office. He didn't even stop. I ran down the slope. There were three men in suits running up and that's who I met. And I said: "They killed him! They killed him! And my boss has it on film!" And that's when they got interested in me, when I said that. ". http://www.historyne...ics/3024996.htm *********************** Neither the young black couple on the bench nor coke bottle,or bottles,were ever mentioned by Marilyn Sitzman, before this interview with Josiah Thompson.. The coke bottle, the BDMN and the Man behind the cement wall, I believe had been found by this time within the photographs.... as far as I have been able to establish.. The interview was made in Nov./66.....his first book was released in 1967....He questions her somewhat at length about the possibility of there being space between the pedestal, and the possibility of there being space for a car to have parked in front of the fence...... the further you research into this pergola area imo it becomes further confusing, and information becomes not nearly as clear as it should have been...b Edited July 25, 2012 by Bernice Moore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) re the comment within above i believe i posted about Zapruder stating that he was gone from the pedestal by Sitzman, before her, here is some info in regard to that statement found within his information...b as well as a phony SS man being confronted by Officer Smith..in the lot, we.have Sam Holland, present on the overpass,and the information and the search behind the fence that took place, as well as others who gave their information ..who were situated there also… Abraham Zapruder: “”Q: After the car passed under the underpass, what did you do? A: I got off the abutment and walked towards my office. I was screaming "They shot him, they shot him." People asked me what happened, they probably didn't see what happened, they heard a shot but didn't see actually what happened. I kept saying, "They killed him, they killed him," and went to my office. Scroll down to Abraham Zapruder's W/C Testimony & the Shaw trial testimony 1, 2.. http://jfkassassinat.../russ/wit.htm#u Edited July 25, 2012 by Bernice Moore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Mike here is the other short video, i believe from TMWKK...FWIW...b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Note; FYI if anyone is tempted to order Dr.Stover's tape....ask before if he has corrected the sound, it is very low and poor, i hope by now, he has been able to have this corrected at the time i received mine, there was no way to have such improved.....b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Doesn't her statement about when Zap starts filming... "just before they came around the corner" at :42 help support Zaps memory about filming the entire turn? re:BDM and the kids... Sitzman: Some ran ... I mean ... I finally got back up to the alcove. There was bunches of people just swarming back there, and I think almost everybody on that hill ran back up that way. And another thing that I remember this day: there was a colored couple. I figure they were between 18 and 21, a boy and a girl, sitting on a bench, just almost, oh, parallel with me, on my right side, close to the fence. Thompson: Darn right. I know. I've seen the films too. Now, to get to this area between the stockade fence and the cement abutment, or small mall: Did you turn after the shot to look in this general area? Sitzman: Yes. Thompson: And did you see anyone in this area? Sitzman: No, just the two colored people running back. Thompson: I see. They were already ... they'd gotten up from the bench and were now running around into the gap made between the stockade fence and the pergola. Sitzman: Either in the gap there or back in the alcove. I don't recall which way they went. I saw ... I heard the bottles crash, and of course I looked that way, to my right, right away, and they were getting up and running towards the back. And I turned back to see if there was anything in the front street, because then they didn't affect me one way or another. Thompson: To see if anything else was going on. Had you seen them sitting on the bench before you stood next to them? Sitzman: Oh year, yes. Everybody is ... oh, ten or fifteen minutes before, everybody was milling around down there, trying to find a place to stand and everything, and I know when we went over to get up on the marble thing, they were already sitting there. Seeing the height of the wall and the bench... anyone sitting there SHOULD be seen in either Betzner, Willis, Moorman, ??? at least the tops of their heads if Sitzman can see them... Are you aware of ANY photo or image that shows these two people at that bench? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Hi David; sorry no, i know of no known photo that shows anyone on the bench, i wish, imo i always had the impression that Sitzman was referring to the Kennedys coming down Houston and round the corner, that is whom she was concentrating on, i believe, not the motorcycles,but to each their own interpretation, ta b.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Hi David; sorry no, i know of no known photo that shows anyone on the bench, i wish, imo i always had the impression that Sitzman was referring to the Kennedys coming down Houston and round the corner, that is whom she was concentrating on, i believe, not the motorcycles,but to each their own interpretation, ta b.. Thanks for the confirmation... I've tried and can't see them in anything... And I agree, Sitzman IS talking about the Kennedy's coming round Houston onto Elm... yet the Z film splices to them already on Elm... It is my opinion, based on work by Chris Davidson and others, that the corner turn was removed to align all the films... I've written about this before...this was why the frame numbers were determined by working BACKWARD from 312... and NPIC could not understand how LIFE determined the frames for the first and second shots... Do you know if there was mention of all that broken glass while all these people are milling around? and it looks to me that there is still a paper bag with a bottle in it... Does it makes sense that they would literally throwing the bottle on the ground and make it explode? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rago Posted July 28, 2012 Author Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) Sitzman: Either in the gap there or back in the alcove. I don't recall which way they went. I saw ... I heard the bottles crash, and of course I looked that way, to my right, right away, and they were getting up and running towards the back. And I turned back to see if there was anything in the front street, because then they didn't affect me one way or another. She said she did not know which way the couple went, either the alcove back into the parking lot. However, we know, from photographic evidence , that she went into the alcove immediately after she got down off the pedestal. She would have known that the black couple was not in the alcove. However, as we know , she did not mention that the first thing she did was go into the alcove after she got down off the pedestal. Neither did Zapruder mention it or the two Hesters. Finally, we know from photographic evidence and his testimony, that Zapruder jumped down from the pedestal and went over to Beatrice Hester who was laying in the grass. He then followed her, at a distance , into the pergola shelter. Edited July 28, 2012 by Mike Rago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now