Help Please - need to see FBI Item D-77: Kleins orders

[David Von Pein]

So, David J., you think somebody inserted fake serial numbers THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE DOCUMENT in Waldman #4?

And BOTH of those Dolan FD-302 reports are accurate. The second one, obviously written a little later on Nov. 23, merely indicates that the microfilm was taken OUT OF THE SAFE and made available to the FBI.

Why do you think those documents contradict each other? They don't at all.

Edited April 10, 2017 by David Von Pein

[Michael Clark]

19 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

The FBI claimed that Klein's had substituted the longer, heavier FC rifle for the one ordered, a TS 36" carbine.

Klein's has the 100 rifle shipment from Feb 22, 1963 until Nov 22, 1963 while advertising a 36" TS carbine from mid '62 thru Feb '63 when the ad is changed to 

From April 1963 on, this ad runs with the hopes of selling some of the 100 rifles they supposedly just received.

The only rifle in inventory to satisfy orders for this ad - and the only order offered as evidence from Kleins, is the FC 40" rifle.

Any order for a C20-T750 between April 1962 and Feb 1963 was shipped WHAT Dave?

One last thing...  each of the ads up to April 1963 says "Rear sight adjustable for elevation"  
The rifles from Crescent - either the FC or TS - were REAR OPEN SIGHT rifles.

The revised order from Kleins' for "91 TS" rifles is the "Adjustable sight" model....    So basically for a year and right up to Feb 1963, rifles shipped for a C20-T750 order were not only heavier and more expensive but an entirely different rear sight as well...   

 

Dave, the FBI didn't look because there was nothing there for them to see...  as a result, their search would have disproved their story about the FC shipped for the TS.  Furthermore, the microfilm would also hold the key to destroying the bogus Klein's story...  In true FBI fashion, the film is gone.

If the evidence told the story needed, it would have been offered.  Instead, they created evidence which proves itself... yet fizzles away in the light of anything outside the closed loop of evidence.

You ever wonder how all the copier noise disappears only behind the serial numbers?

 

That's Awesome Mr. Joseph's! I know you and people like you have better things to do, but I have to thank DVP for spending so much time manning the clay-target-launcher so you can demonstrate you expertise!

Cheers,

Michael

[David Josephs]

Of course not Dave...  your ears, eyes and mouth continue to work just fine...

Read the reports again buddy...  you can't both TAKE and LEAVE the same roll of film.   Waldman says to subpoena him if they need the microfilm from his safe.

 

[David Von Pein]

4 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Waldman says to subpoena him if they need the microfilm from his safe.

That's the first report. The second one (Dolan only) then says the microfilm was made available FROM THE SAFE. (Obviously after Waldman had placed it in the safe the same day.) That's what it appears to be to me. I don't see anything suspicious about those reports. I wonder why you do.

[David Von Pein]

David Josephs said:

Any order for a C20-T750 between April 1962 and Feb 1963 was shipped WHAT Dave?

Who cares? I sure don't. It's meaningless information. We know OSWALD was shipped a 40-inch "Italian Carbine" BY KLEIN'S on 3/20/63. And we know without a doubt that that rifle had the serial number C2766 on it. That's all that really matters.

 

Edited April 10, 2017 by David Von Pein

[Michael Clark]

56 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Who cares? I sure don't. It's meaningless information. We know OSWALD was shipped a 40-inch "Italian Carbine" BY KLEIN'S on 3/20/63. And we know without a doubt that that rifle had the serial number C2766 on it. That's all that really matters.

 

But.... Oswald never owned a rifle. The rifle found in the TSBD was a Mauser, DPD officers have testified to that fact.

 

Edited April 11, 2017 by Michael Clark

[David Von Pein]

Just now, Michael Clark said:

But.... Oswald never owned a rifle. The rifle found in the TSBD was a Mauser, DPD officers have testified to that fact.

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/12/oswald-ordered-rifle.html

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2016/10/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1194.html

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/09/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-803.html

[James DiEugenio]

Davey:

Let us make it simple.

The rifle in evidence is not the rifle that the WC says Oswald allegedly ordered.  You know that, so did Gary Mack.

When confronted with this serious problem in the record, which David Belin knew about and concealed, you and Gary would say, well they ran out of one and sent him the other.  I personally thought that was pretty much so lame it needed two crutches.  In my experience, when that happens the merchant gets back to me and gives me the option, he does not just send me something I did not order.  

What David is saying is this:  let us assume for the sake of your argument, that Klein's did this weird practice.  Both the FBI and the WC knew the wrong rifle was in evidence. They knew sooner or  later someone would point it out.  If this had happened before, then should they not have said in the record, "Well see, when they ran out of 36 inch rifles, they then sent out the 40 inch model."

So when you say its irrelevant, that is simply more bloviation on your part.  It is directly relevant to the argument you and Gary made.  In fact, it goes to the heart of the matter.

So where is the evidence that it happened?  

[David Von Pein]

The evidence that it happened, Jim, is contained in Waldman #7 (in conjunction with CE773). Those two documents, in tandem, provide the PROOF that the following two things happened....

1. Lee Harvey Oswald (aka A. Hidell) ordered a 36-inch rifle from Klein's via mail order in March 1963.

2. Klein's Sporting Goods in Chicago mailed a 40-inch rifle to Oswald/Hidell on March 20th, 1963.

Regardless of the REASON for #2 happening, #2 above definitely DID happen nonetheless.

~Mark VII~

 

 

[James DiEugenio]

Davey, very nice pivot to avoid the question I asked.  

You don't have an answer, as to why he got the wrong rifle.  And there is no evidence they did what you suggest they did in the extant files. Not one time.  Which means you and Gary were essentially manufacturing excuses out of thin air.  Something you have a lot of experience doing.

BTW, if Sean Spicer ever leaves his job, I suggest you take his place. 

Edited April 11, 2017 by James DiEugenio

[Michael Walton]

Pretty amazing  on that list of serial numbers. Even the underline for each entry is missing.

Also  not to get off topic  but a clip was mentioned. I'm  not a gun expert but when the bullets are put in the clip holds the bullets right? Was that clip ever found in Oswald’s  possessions  or near the rifle?

[David Josephs]

No Michael...  no clip, no ammo, no rifle...   REA pretty much destroys all that...

And no David, if it was mailed, it was picked up and not by Oswald... and not at REA where it should have been picked up.

One last question...  Sept 24 1963 Oswald supposedly takes 2 small suitcases and leaves the Magazine apartment.
The rifle was not packed into Ruth's wagon, or unloaded at the other end
Oswald obviously did not take it with him wherever that may have been.

The Rifle is never actually seen at the Paine's...  Both Ruth and Michael claim they do not see a rifle until Nov 22nd.

If this rifle is in Oswald's possession, how does the rifle get from New Orleans to Dallas, Dave?

 

 

[David Von Pein]

Keep living in "rifle denial", conspiracy boys. I've learned to expect such denial from the CT crowd. It's merely par for the JFK course.

Joseph Ball's retort to Mark Lane in 1964 concerning Oswald's rifle purchase is just as true today as it was then. It's a great quote, and completely accurate:

"I've never heard such a major distortion of what is actually a conclusive fact." -- Joseph A. Ball; 12/4/64

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/08/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-992.html

 

 

Edited April 11, 2017 by David Von Pein

[David Josephs]

Yes Dave, let's all trust Mr. Ball...   like listening to Bugliosi...

As I asked before - you never replied....

With the FBI watching Oswald all thru 1963...  how is it that they do no know about the order and delivery at the time it was supposedly created, in March 1963?

The FBI has assets in the USPS & got cooperation from Kleins.   How is it the USPS does not inform the FBI that Lee Oswald had not only ordered a rifle, but a pistol AND where and when he picked it up...?

In fact, can you show us any single FBI report prior to Nov 22 which includes mention of Kleins, a rifle, REA, a mail order coupon, a 5 foot carton delivered to Oswald's PO Box and on and on Dave...  How does the FBI miss this from March thru Nov?

[David Von Pein]

"I've always been a bit baffled by the crackpot conspiracy theorists who argue that Lee Harvey Oswald never ordered or paid for or ever took possession of Mannlicher-Carcano Rifle No. C2766 in 1963. It seems to me that even the rabid CTers in the "Anybody But Oswald" fraternity would be better off by just admitting the obvious---that Oswald did purchase that rifle. Because the CTers could then pretend that the conspirators who framed Oswald did so by using OSWALD'S OWN RIFLE. Isn't that a better theory than the loopy "Oswald Never Ordered The Rifle At All" theory? Via that theory of LHO never ordering the weapon, the CTers are then forced to pretend that the entire rifle transaction and the paperwork for that transaction was falsely manufactured from the ground up! And yet that type of "Everything's Fake" nonsense is supposedly more believable than just conceding that Rifle C2766 was Oswald's own rifle and some plotters framed LHO with it on 11/22/63? Bizarre. But that's the CT world, I guess --- Bizarre."

-- David Von Pein; August 2015

Edited April 11, 2017 by David Von Pein