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Help Please - need to see FBI Item D-77: Kleins orders


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37 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

 

I still find it quite amazing that in all these years we've NEVER heard about a Kleins Carcano with any one of the other 99 serial numbers.  You'd think that would have been quite a find... and would prove they existed.

 

Absolutely, they would be collectors items.

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I still find it quite amazing that in all these years we've NEVER heard about a Klein's Carcano with any one of the other 99 serial numbers. You'd think that would have been quite a find... and would prove they existed.

But, David, we know that Klein's was selling Carcano rifles to customers well PRIOR to the time when Oswald purchased his Carcano from Klein's. Waldman Exhibit No. 1 proves that fact.

So we could also ask:

Why hasn't anybody ever come forward, AT ANY POINT IN TIME, to say that they purchased a gun from Klein's that is similar to the C2766 Oswald rifle?

As far as I know, no one has ever come forward to make such a claim about purchasing ANY RIFLE from Klein's Sporting Goods, regardless of whether it was a gun that was part of the "100 rifles" in the Crescent-to-Klein's February 1963 shipment or not. And you surely aren't going to claim that ALL Klein's rifle sales that PRE-DATE the date of the Oswald/Hidell sale in March of '63 are tainted or faked in some manner, are you?

So, since we can't really explain the total LACK of people coming forward to say they bought ANY similar Mannlicher-Carcano rifle from Klein's back through the years, even though you and I both know that Klein's positively DID sell many hundreds (maybe thousands?) of Carcano rifles to various mail-order customers prior to (and for several months after) March of 1963, then that fact would seem to severely diminish your argument when you claim that many people should be coming out of the woodwork to say they purchased a rifle from Klein's that was specifically part of the Crescent-to-Klein's shipment of 100 rifles that also included Oswald's C2766 weapon.
 

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First thing Dave - that spool is sitting in the bottom half of a canister... since you were able to spot a piece of film that wasn't maybe you'd see the canister ridges outside the spool.

14 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

But, David, we know that Klein's was selling Carcano rifles to customers well PRIOR to the time when Oswald purchased his Carcano from Klein's. Waldman Exhibit No. 1 proves that fact.

Ok, now you're off the reservation here buddy...  Waldman 1 is the Kleins order.  Nothing on that order suggests that Kleins received rifles prior to Feb 22...  Rupp did not take rifles out until August 1962... so if Kleins was sent rifles from Crescent... where's the evidence?

If Kleins sold a C20-T750, a 36" carbine, prior to Feb 22, 1963...  What did they ship the customer? img_1138_716_200.jpg

 
From where did they get the 91/38 TS rifles to ship these orders? - (remember the 91TS originally ordered has the adjustable sights just like the coupon description...  yet another swap a customer may not want.)

Where is the June 1962 shipment of FC rifles the FBI repeatedly mentions... or the one from March?
(btw, "M91/38" does not refer to a specific rifle...  there are M91/38 TS's, FC's and Cav. 

Kleins-rifletypesforCarcano.jpg

Finally, we don't care about ANY RIFLE Dave...  just the C20-T750 advertised from the summer of 1962 thru Feb 1963.  IF they got a shipment of TS rifles elsewhere, there is no evidence for such.

So yes Dave, it matters since C2766 is attached to a story which does not work.  A journey that cannot be traced with evidence showing the receipt of at least 2 other rifle orders from Kleins for which we have no evidence other than the FBI's mentioning it and contradicting the idea that Kleins ever had "C2766" other than from a June shipment that Rupp's activity renders impossible.

Dave, for evidence to work it needs to work outside the small circle of self corroborating evidence.  It represents a Standard Operational Procedure for ALL RIFLES.  If there is no other example to support a singular instance, that instance must be verified.  

Since we never see another of the VC=Serial# sheets for something other than those 100 rifles, never see another order for a C20-T750 which is shipped a FC rifle in its stead, never see an order for a FC rifle from April 1963 thru Nov 1963 despite it being advertised now as a 40" 7lb weapon, now with a REAR OPEN SIGHT (91/38 Fucile Corto)  

Were any of these coupons ever sent in for an order?  If so... which of the remaining 99 rifles was shipped?

58ec0ba855d60_April1963adforC20-T750a40inchrifleat7lbs-sameclipartsameprice.jpg.08be0272fe3431cb5acd848cf992aace.jpg

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I just got done talking to John.

When he was at NARA, there was a canister there that was supposed to have the Klein's film in it.

When he asked for the film he was told there was no film associated with the exhibit.

It always helps to actually go to the Archives.  And not rely on pictures.

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