Craig Lamson Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Meyers has Towner's camera running at 22.8 frames per sec in order to get his multisyncing to work. Towner's camera actually ran at 18.3 frames per sec, same as Zapruder's, much more in line with what it's supposed to be. How much faster does Meyer's have the camera running in terms of time. 22.8/18.3=1.25. So 25% faster. chris Getting back to this area, the Towner film consists of 167 total frames. That would be 160 + 7 missing/spliced frames. Towner started filming the limo as it turned from Houston onto Elm. If I was Z and I started filming at the same time as Towner with the same "frame per second" rate I would have a parallel film version of the same time period. Why is this important? Well, the WC started there calculations at frame 161 and ended at 313 = 152 frames They shorted JFK by 15ft. They also created a 1frame per 1ft guide. Lets add the frames back first. 152 + 15 =167 frames Gee!! Thats the same amount of frames as the Towner film. Add them together and it's a total of 334 frames. When did Shaneyfelt say they stopped the photographic aspect: Mr. SPECTER. And how was the ending point of that frame sequence, being No. 334, fixed? Mr. SHANEYFELT. It was fixed as several frames past the shot that hit the President in the head. Frame 313 is the frame showing the shot to the President's head, and it ends at 334. Or, maybe it was the end of their pre-conceived film work. Work that equation forward and backward. chris Why, its just more compounded garbage...more of the same crap you have not been able to sell for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Thank you David, Nicely conveyed. If I may add just a bit more. Time-Life Survey-Data Nov25, 1963. SS re-enactment Dec 2nd-Dec4th, 1963 with final Survey Plat completed on Dec5th, 1963 FBI re-enactment Feb7th, 1964 - A revised Dec5th, 1963 SS Plat was created at this time too. March16, 1964- The day the Autopsy Surgeons testified, SS Agent Howlett requests a copy of the FBI survey plat of Feb7, 1964. WC re-enactment completed in May 1964. FBI Survey Plat 6/25/1964 created, a full month after the WC phony re-enactment of the assassination. Briefly paraphrased by me. Full credit to Tom Purvis. Craig wants you to believe the investigations were Sunday strolls. Not happening!!! They are all still fantasy events. They could not accurately recreate the Zapruder film not the events it contains. It is simply impossible to correctly redo all the minute variables. So each recreation and survey becomes a brand new event, not a recreation of an old one. Its one guess after the next guess, after the next guess, after the next. One error compounds the next error which compound the next. You can run your math until the cows come home, but its based on flawed data... and its still garbage in, garbage out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rago Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) It is obvious the limo moves further between frames 166 and 171 than it moved between frames 161 and 166, indicating the limo increased velocity. Between frames 161 and 171 the limo was accelerating. For comparison here is how much the limo moved between the next 5 frames, 166 and 171. According to the data the limo should move about 5 feet, which it appears to do. Here is the gif for frames 161 and 166 And for even more comparision here are the gif frames for 156 and 161. For frames 161 to 171 the photographic evidence tends to support the numbers we see in this table. (As well it should since the table was constructed from this photographic evidence) Edited September 21, 2012 by Mike Rago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) Mike, Let me show you how you can apply the "instantaneous speed" analysis to the assassination as a whole. Let's deal with the ratio difference between the red squares in the document. 3.74/2.24 = 1.669 If I expand the answer in terms of 100(frames), this will convert to 166.9/100 I previously explained how many total Towner film frames there are: 167 Do you see the relationship between the "instantaneous speed analysis differential ratio" and the total number of Towner frames? Now, if I want to hide 30ft in 100 frames @18.3frames per sec my equation is: 100/18.3 frame sper sec = 5.46 seconds 30ft/5.46sec = 5.49ft per sec = 3.734 mph If I want to hide 30ft in 167 frames @ 18.3 frames per sec my equation is: 167/18.3 frames per sec = 9.12 sec. 30ft/9.12 sec = 3.28ft per sec = 2.237 mph So, when you show us the limo speeds up, of course it does, its acceleration in terms of "instantaneous speed" just happens to adjust for the elimination of 30ft in specific frame spans, which tie directly into the whole scheme of things. chris P.S BTW, where is the first splice in the film in relation to the frames you have been using for the "instantaneous speed analysis? Warning sign!!!!! Edited September 21, 2012 by Chris Davidson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rago Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) Chris no one is hiding anything. You have not shown that anyone is hiding anything. The Zapruder frames speak for themselves. They show how much the limo moved. If you want to say they are hiding something then you have to show that they have either added or removed frames during that interval(161 to 171) or they have grossly misstated the actual distance traveled,which you have not done. Looking at the frames shows they have not grossly misstated the distance traveled. From looking at the frames it is obvious that the error in distance moved is not any where close to 15 feet. You have a hypothesis that you have formed because of the relationships you think you see between the different films. Fine. But that is the hypothesis. ( I am not quite sure what your hypothesis is but I think it is something like they have either added or removed 30 feet from that actual re-enactment). If that is your hypothesis you then have to go to the data for the Zapruder re-enactment and prove your hypothesis. You have not done that in my opinion. Those interesting relationships are not used to prove your case. You have to go to the actual data to prove your point. Clearly state your hypothesis. What is your hypothesis? You still have not clearly stated it. Just one post that only includes your hypothesis. What is your hypothesis? Coincidence does happen. For instance, JFK was 15.5 feet from the front of the limo. I suppose from what you are saying the SN nest was close to 15 feet from the curb at the corner of elm and Houston and somehow you have focused on this coincidence. ( If you actually made the measurement you would probably see that they are not exact matches. ) Edited September 21, 2012 by Mike Rago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 Mike, Go back to StationC and the snipers nest and figure out the distance between the two. Get back to me when you have a measurement for the distance. If you don't see a difference in terms of footage between the two, then why bother with addressing any additional information I put forward. Simple as that!!! chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rago Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) Chris, that is not a reasonable response to the question I asked. Yes there is a difference between the snipers nest and station c. But you have not shown , at all, how that difference comes into play in your hypothesis. You have not shown that the numbers in Exhibit 884 are measured from the snipers nest(station 2+50). They are measured from station c. If you think they are measured from station 2+50 you need to show that. What is you hypothesis Chris? What are you trying to show? Edited September 21, 2012 by Mike Rago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 Mike, Let me show you how you can apply the "instantaneous speed" analysis to the assassination as a whole. Let's deal with the ratio difference between the red squares in the document. 3.74/2.24 = 1.669 If I expand the answer in terms of 100(frames), this will convert to 166.9/100 I previously explained how many total Towner film frames there are: 167 Do you see the relationship between the "instantaneous speed analysis differential ratio" and the total number of Towner frames? Now, if I want to hide 30ft in 100 frames @18.3frames per sec my equation is: 100/18.3 frame sper sec = 5.46 seconds 30ft/5.46sec = 5.49ft per sec = 3.734 mph If I want to hide 30ft in 167 frames @ 18.3 frames per sec my equation is: 167/18.3 frames per sec = 9.12 sec. 30ft/9.12 sec = 3.28ft per sec = 2.237 mph So, when you show us the limo speeds up, of course it does, its acceleration in terms of "instantaneous speed" just happens to adjust for the elimination of 30ft in specific frame spans, which tie directly into the whole scheme of things. chris P.S BTW, where is the first splice in the film in relation to the frames you have been using for the "instantaneous speed analysis? Warning sign!!!!! Getting back to the Towner film and the discrepancy between Myers 22.8 frame rate and the correct 18.3 frame rate is going to yield a difference in time for 167 frames. 167/18.3 = 9.12sec 167/22.8 = 7.32 sec That is a difference of 1.8 seconds. Determine the frame total for 1.8 sec @ 18.3 frames per sec. 1.8 x 18.3 frames per sec = 33 frames It is no coincidence that the Zfilm limo segment starts at frame 133. 33 frames back is frame 100. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rago Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) I cannot let you ignore your way out of this. BTW, I found this thread in the forum. It looks like you believe that a second Zapruder film was shot at a rate of 24 frames per second and superimposed on the 18.3 version to create the ghost images and sproket hole anomalies. No wonder Daniel Josephs is leading you on, anything that says the photographic evidence is faked he is all for! It seems to me that this current thread should be incorporated into this pre-existing thread. http://educationforu...30 Edited September 21, 2012 by Mike Rago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) If you deal with the ratio of 22.8/18.3 frames per sec that converts to 125%. Towner film = 167 total frames. 167 x .25 = 41.75 frames/42frames "JFK in limo" aligned with the corner of the TSBD is Towner frame 91, no it is not Towner frame 85. Towner frame 91 + 42 = frame133 chris Edited September 21, 2012 by Chris Davidson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rago Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I found this post Chris where he thinks there were 2 head shots, which I agree, but he thinks they were separated by 30 feet. I think they were separated by about 6 feet. http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17330entry218977 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) If you deal with the ratio of 22.8/18.3 frames per sec that converts to 125%. Towner film = 167 total frames. 167 x .25 = 41.75 frames/42frames "JFK in limo" aligned with the corner of the TSBD is Towner frame 91, no it is not Towner frame 85. Towner frame 91 + 42 = frame133 chris The same can be addressed in terms of time: 167 frames/18.3 frames per sec = 9.12 sec. 9.12sec/.25 = 2.28 sec 9.12sec - 2.28sec = 6.84 sec. Does Paul Mandel of Life Magazine ring a bell!!! Published Dec6, 1963 in Life Magazine. He's giving his version with specific distance and frame counts. chris Edited September 21, 2012 by Chris Davidson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) Mike... the core assumption here is that 2 seconds of film... approximately 30 feet at 10mph at 18.3fps... has been removed from the Zfilm. The MATH is designed to show where and how that WAS accomplished... By drastically slowing the limo during certain frame sequences (saying a much shorter distance was covered than actually was) and by switching from JFK in the limo to the front of the limo Chris (via Tom Purvis) has shown that either: 1) the speeds offered based on the recreation/Zfilm is severely understated and during the ACTUAL MOTORCADE the limo moved much farther during each frame sequence than is offered which in turn means frames were removed so that the count from Point A to B has much fuwere frames than was actually taken, We KNOW the limo did not speed up from 3mph to over 20 from 161 to 185... we can see that... or 2) the limo was slowing considerably from 185 thru 313 to include a stopping or crawling along at less than 3mph... so that Hill catches the limo in 3 steps - not possible at 11mph, sorry. If the limo slowed enough to add 1-2 seconds that were removed before the "original" was recreated... the math has to account for it. the LEGEND was never supposed to be published... never supposed to be available to look at... or for at least many years so this type of analysis could not be done. and then the LEGEND was changed from its original state... Craig would have you believe this was all very innocent - cause the FBI is known for innocence... when in reality it was desgined to make it impossible to to analyze the ZFILM with any accuracy since the Zfilm was no longer "original"... To me the first tell tale sign of alteration is the splice from 132 to 133... there should not have been a splice there... and the film does not indicate that the camera started ans stopped at this point. it simply CUTS from one scene to the next... In each of the STOP/STARTS elsewhere on the film, the first few frames l;ook like 001-003... Mr. LIEBELER - And it proceeded then down Elm Street toward the triple underpass; is that correct? Mr. ZAPRUDER - That's correct. I started shooting--when the motorcade started coming in, I believe I started and wanted to get it coming in from Houston Street. Sitzman: Yes. Well, he stood up there, and he asked me to come up and stand behind him, 'cause when he takes the pictures looking through the telescopic lens, he might get dizzy, and he wanted me to stand behind him, so in case he got dizzy I could hold onto him. so I got up behind him, and we saw the motorcade turn the corner at Main onto Houston. He hadn't started taking the pictures there then, and we watched them as they came down Houston; and just as the motorcycles that were leading the parade came ... started ... came around the corner and started down the hill, he started taking the pictures then. And there's nothing unusual about it ... Edited May 3, 2017 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 (edited) David, All part of the 100ft (85ft + 15ft) scenario. BTW, if you look at the plat in post #5, you will notice the triangle created connects Station No. 2+00 to 2+50. If you include a line to the TSBD corner and measure back from there to 2+25 and on to 2+00, the straight line distance should be approx 43.75ft Now add that to Myers distance from the TSBD corner to the end of Towner = 43.75ft + 42.42ft= 86.17ft. Now compare that back to Myers distance from the beginning to the end of Towner. IOW, 2+00 is the approx. beginning of the Towner film. chris Edited September 22, 2012 by Chris Davidson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 (edited) And why not use the non-limo??? sequence as a tool for creating the masterpiece. I think the motorcycle policeman probably worked fine as a marker. Lets see: 91 Towner frames till "JFK in limo" is aligned with the TSBD corner. 132 pre limo frames 41 frame difference. And then: 167 total Towner frames Myers 22.8 frames per sec/ real rate18.3 frames per sec = 1.25 or 25% faster 167 x .25 = 41.75 frames BTW, the last frame in the gif is frame 131, with 132, I couldn't get a clear registration of the lane dividers. chris P.S. I wonder if Mike knows that a 4/3 or 3/4 ratio could also be considered reducing or accelerating by 25%. All about those ratio conversions!!! Edited September 22, 2012 by Chris Davidson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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