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Tripple Underpass


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Edited by Tim Carroll
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I tried to post an image for Terry Mauro but for some reason found it difficult to attach. For further discussions, I have made up the following and placed circles around areas of possible interest.

James

Thanks James: This is a good uncroped picture and shows the overpass about ten seconds or so after the shots. Perhaps the people on the bridge all went to the northwest side of the underpass as the Limo went to Parkland.

None the less, I was told that "...nobody was on the bridge. (north or south) That era had been cleared by the Secret Service..." Ref; Denver FBI. Scott Warner SAC; Denver County Jail, Feb 1964 and again Colorado State Reformatory, Buena Vista Colo. March 1964. inmate# Plumlee #17581 March- Dec 1964. Denver Probation report investigation dated November, 1964 recordered in whitnessed by Wayne Patterson Warden Colorado State Reformatory, November 13, 1964 "... If you do not stop talking about what you think you know about the assassination, you will never get out of here..." sorry, I ramble... I'm old and tired...

I want to die like my grand dad.., in my sleep..,not like his screaming passenger in the back seat... Tosh

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Tosh, I also went back to the black and white picture taken on the day of the shooting, where you were describing the exact areas where you and Sergio were standing to the left of the forked tree shadow and the pick-up truck. I could make out a figure wearing, what I perceived to be light-colored trousers, but had difficulty seeing the other person as clearly due to the grain of the picture and most likely due to the shadow that person was standing in at the time the picture was being shot. Therefore, when Tim posted this colored picture of a bird's eye-view of the plaza, I noticed how much thicker the trees themselves appeared to be, as if they'd had time to fill out, compared to the the black and white photo (that I believe Wim had posted) of the day of the shooting. I'm most appreciative of you pointing this out, as I was always under the impression that you were closer to the street and possibly in front of the structure of the overpass, instead of where, in reality, you actually were. I'd also like to thank Tim for putting up the color photo, and James and yourself for clarifying the year.

Terry

A picture is worth a thousand words. Here is the photo of the South Knoll. It would be helpful if Tosh could circle the precise location he's describing. I understand his estimation of the South Knoll shooter's location to be about 5 yards east of the underpass at the fence line. If that is not sufficiently precise, I hope Tosh will correct me, perhaps even with a circled location in the provided photo. Maybe when I'm there in a few weeks and taking a photo of the proposed South Knoll shooter's angle onto Elm St., I'll try out Tosh's audio experiment by yelling out "Bang bang bang" and have my wife tell me where the sound seemed to come from. For Dealey Plaza that probably wouldn't constitute strange behavior. . . .

Tim

Terry and Tim: If you look at the peak of the roof in the background and a little left of the pickup truck.., and IF there was a south knoll shooter.., he would be perhaps on the railroad tracks on in the parking lot, (in line with the peak of the roof or a little bit to the right of it left of the pickup) or mabe back into the lot near a parked car.

If you look at the left side of the picture above the man and the car roof in the shadows, that is where Sergio and I were standing. As you can see the Limo had already gone under the bridge and in the Bell picture there is a man standing about center of the overpass. I think he went to the otherside (west) to see the limo heading for Parklland Hospital.

I have said I think I was waring tan pants and a light , but I really do'n't remember for sure... we did have a clip board but I can't remember who was holding it..... I do not know how to draw a circle and get it posted.... well I should correct that.., I do know how to draw a circle, almost. I know more than most operatives. Tosh

Yes, Tosh. The figure I'm seeing looks as if they're wearing light trousers and

a lighter-toned shirt or jacket. I tried experimenting with the "Paintbrush"

accessory program in my computer, and managed somehow to transfer the

enlarged photo into this window that allowed me to draw a yellow line around

the area I see you in. I copied and pasted it into an e-mail to James Richards

to see if he could post it here for you, because I tried and it doesn't transfer

over. James said I needed to put it into a jpeg form, and send it, but I'm not

even sure I remember how I did what I just did. I've never used that function

on my computer before. I'm waiting for James to send me instructions on how

to perform the jpeg transfer. What I will try to do, in the meantime, is send it to you via the members e-mail section and see if it goes through intact. Sorry to

be so computer illiterate. It's probably "age-specific". LOL

Terry

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I tried to post an image for Terry Mauro but for some reason found it difficult to attach. For further discussions, I have made up the following and placed circles around areas of possible interest.

James

Thanks James: This is a good uncroped picture and shows the overpass about ten seconds or so after the shots. Perhaps the people on the bridge all went to the northwest side of the underpass as the Limo went to Parkland.

None the less, I was told that "...nobody was on the bridge. (north or south) That era had been cleared by the Secret Service..." Ref; Denver FBI. Scott Warner SAC; Denver County Jail, Feb 1964 and again Colorado State Reformatory, Buena Vista Colo. March 1964. inmate# Plumlee #17581 March- Dec 1964. Denver Probation report investigation dated November, 1964 recordered in whitnessed by Wayne Patterson Warden Colorado State Reformatory, November 13, 1964 "... If you do not stop talking about what you think you know about the assassination, you will never get out of here..." sorry, I ramble... I'm old and tired...

I want to die like my grand dad.., in my sleep..,not like his screaming passenger in the back seat... Tosh

Thanks, Tosh. I think I read where you related that they told you, "You saw no

one on the bridge.", or something to that effect. Anyway, I'm getting the feeling

that you may be endangering yourself more than we realize, asking these pointed

questions of you.

It's in the "red" circle in the photo James put up. The "right" side of the red circle

to be more exact. Thanks for making that all the more clearer for me, James.

Thanks guys,

Terry

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It's in the "red" circle in the photo James put up.  The "right" side of the red circle

to be more exact.

Terry,

Are you saying that the red circle is where Tosh and Sergio were? If so, that is not correct. They were in the area with the (other) forked tree that is circled in yellow in the photo James put up.

See Tosh's reference to the "man on the left" in the photo and the car roof above him. He's saying they were above that man and the car roof.

That is the same area where his daughter posted close-ups some time ago on the Lancer forum.

Ron

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That bridge was damned crowded and the Secret Service let it happen.

shanet

Interesting post on another forum. I wonder if John would care to go into a little more detail about why he believes this. Do we think the United States Government, CIA and FBI, would tamper with the record and their documents during that time frame?

"...The most important implication of this story for JFK researchers concerns the manufacture of false documents. The CIA have not only been involved in destroying important documents, they have created false ones. Therefore, when Oswald’s CIA file is eventually released, should we really trust what it says. The general opinion will be that as the CIA have spent so much energy making sure the file is not published, it must be true. However, for cynics like me, I believe the file was tampered with soon after the assassination. I expect the same is also true of Oswald’s FBI file. ..." Tosh

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKindex.htm

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It's in the "red" circle in the photo James put up.  The "right" side of the red circle

to be more exact.

Terry,

Are you saying that the red circle is where Tosh and Sergio were? If so, that is not correct. They were in the area with the (other) forked tree that is circled in yellow in the photo James put up.

See Tosh's reference to the "man on the left" in the photo and the car roof above him. He's saying they were above that man and the car roof.

That is the same area where his daughter posted close-ups some time ago on the Lancer forum.

Ron

I see what you mean, Ron. I guess I was using that pick/up truck further down

by the underpass as a reference point. Where is the p/u truck in position to the red-circled area, or has it been cropped out?

Thanks,

Ter

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That bridge was damned crowded and the Secret Service let it happen.

shanet

Interesting post on another forum. I wonder if John would care to go into a little more detail about why he believes this. Do we think the United States Government, CIA and FBI, would tamper with the record and their documents during that time frame?

"...The most important implication of this story for JFK researchers concerns the manufacture of false documents. The CIA have not only been involved in destroying important documents, they have created false ones. Therefore, when Oswald’s CIA file is eventually released, should we really trust what it says. The general opinion will be that as the CIA have spent so much energy making sure the file is not published, it must be true. However, for cynics like me, I believe the file was tampered with soon after the assassination. I expect the same is also true of Oswald’s FBI file. ..." Tosh

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKindex.htm

And, when you compare those two black and white photos taken from different

angles, within a short time span of one another, who's to say that the one missing

the twelve to fourteen people on the underpass, wasn't altered by the gov. to remove those people from it, in order for the FBI to be able to intimidate those who professed seeing the opposite of what the gov. intended? I have never trusted the gov. on anything they've ever tried to foster on the public since June 1994. It's just plain ludicrous!

Thanks to everyone for their help with the photos. I'm much obliged to all of you.

Terry

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That bridge was damned crowded and the Secret Service let it happen.

shanet

Absolutely, Shanet.

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Where is the p/u truck in position to the red-circled area, or has it been cropped out?

The pickup truck is circled in blue. I think Tosh suggests that the shooter may have been to the upper left of the truck, behind the fence between the two big trees.

I wonder which would have been the better trajectory, from there or from behind the colonnade atop the south end of the overpass. Hopefully Tim can check this area out, in relation to where JFK was, when he gets to Dallas, and bring us back some pictures.

Ron

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Edited by Tim Carroll
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Tim,

It looked to me like DCM could be missing a finger or part of one (or the thumb). It's hard to tell, that's why I wanted others to look.

It also looks like the hand is turned palm inward, as if the waving is actually motioning "come on" to someone off to the right (to shoot). But if the palm is turned inward, then (what looks like) the thumb is on the wrong side of the hand.

Maybe I'm just seeing more than is there.

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deleted for space

Edited by Tim Carroll
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