The Education Forum

# Solving A Puzzle

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The first part.

Any questions feel free to inquire.

chris

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Chris

Am I to understand from this display that had Towner kept his film

Running it would not coincide with the frame numbers of Zapruders

And these are the events and their "slippage" ,This is assuming

Both cameras were running at their optimum 18.3 frames per second ?.

Ian,

You are correct.

chris

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So, total frames from Towner start to Z313 = 362.

What is the total distance from Towner start to extant Z313 or real 362?

Towner start is 2+00.

CE884 tells us what the distance is from Towner start to extant Z313 or real 362

Frame Z313 is Station# 4+65.3, which is 265.3 ft from Station# 2+00.

chris

http://educationforu...attach_id=23613

Edited by Chris Davidson
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Any photograph or movie taken at the corner of Elm and Houston or "the turn"

Would have exposed this sooner in a more graphic way !.

What bugs me is how did Fate know to remove the frames that would have exposed them?

So they hid it where "nobody will actually read it".

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Ian,

Part of the overall equation.

Now there is 362 frames @ 265.3ft @18.3Frames per sec.

Total time is 362/18.3 fps = 19.78 sec

Average speed is 265.3ft/ 19.78 sec = 9.125mph=13.41ft per sec.

chris

Edited by Chris Davidson
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30ft /13.41ft per sec (average overall speed) = 2.237sec.

The match from the chart is 2.24mph which =

167frames/18.3 frames per sec = 9.12 sec = 30ft/9.12sec = 3.28ft per sec = 2.237mph.

chris

P.S.

Ratio = 1sec to 1mph

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Looking back at the chart in the previous post and addressing the 3.74mph entry (red box) in terms of 30ft.

The WC entry (in the middle of the column) for 3.74 mph = 5.49ft sec

30ft / 5.49ft sec = 5.46 sec

5.46sec x18.3 frames per sec = 100 frames

chris

P.S.

The WC actually uses 5.5 sec for their calculations dealing with 100 frames.

Edited by Chris Davidson
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Let's add in a few more calcs on the film itself and maybe Chris you can help tie it all together... for if there was alteration with information removed… the Original film HAD to have more frames – 48fps is the only other option to 16fps

In the Archive Horne tells us we have 6'3", 75", of film that contains Assassination imagery... what we do not learn from his statement is whether he means 486 total frames or just from 133-486 = 353 frames

Regular 8mm frame dimensions

Camera aperture size (HxW): 3.68 x 4.88mm

Frame area: 17.96sq. mm (3.68x4.88)

Aspect ratio: 1.33:1

16:9 useable frame area: 13.4sq. mm (75%)

normal frame rate: 16fps

3.68mm = .14488 inches PER FRAME

75" of film = 517 frames / 18.3 = 28.25 seconds of film

Zapruder was 486 frames / 18.3 = 26.56 seconds of film

28.25-26.56= 1.69 seconds of film missing at 18.3

(QUESTION for anyone: how many frames of developed images are there on the A SIDE of the film, the PERSONAL SIDE and pre motorcade frames… I’ve seen the numbers somewhere but can’t put my hands on them – Horne says there were about 177 frames shot pre-motorcade…25.6 inches of film)

That is the only imagery on the 33’1”of film that makes up the “IN CAMERA ORIGINAL” (btw a blank spool has 25 feet of useable film per side, not 33, the final length will include leaders and such placed on the frame portion of the film at processing.)

75” has images, then there are 2 spliced sections of completely BLANK FILM (not leader, film) HOW CAN ANYONE CLAIM THIS IS AN IN CAMERA ORIGINAL when the 0183 and Processing edge printing is NOT on this film as well?

Anyway,

486 frames of film = 26.56 seconds of film at 18.3, at 48fps = 1275 frames (IF the entire film was taken at 48fps – since the camera easily switched from 16 to 48 fps, it is virtually impossible to tell when this would have been on and off)

No let me make a point while asking a question… if one was to take a 48fps shot film and removed the 2nd and 3rd frame from each 3 frame segment, wouldn’t this now look like a film shot at 16fps ? The distance between frame exposures goes from 1/48th to 1/16th of a second and what we see in frames 1/4/7/10/13 on a 48fps film SHOULD BE the same as frames 1/2/3/4/5 on a 16fps film of the same event from the same location.

If frames 1/4/7/10/13 are placed next to each other, run at 16 and RE-filmed at 16fps, wouldn’t the IS area of these frames ALSO BE 1/16th of a second apart?

So why 18.3fps and how does the NPIC even know to consider 18fps THAT weekend?

LIFE has already provided NPIC, by Sunday evening, the frames, at 18fps, on which shots are seen: 190/264/312… Doesn’t this suggest that “264” is the SBT seen at 224 – how are they 40 frames off?

To recap:

A film at 48fps would look exactly like a 16fps film if we were to remove the 2nd/3rd frames from each 3 frame sequence

There are enough frames per second at 48fps to create a believable 18.3fps final film and still remove almost 2/3’s of the frames.

There SHOULD BE 517 frames worth of exposed film in 6’3”… there are only 480 frames in the extant portion of the assassination (6 damaged frames 156/7, 208/9/10/11)

Not every bit of the film needed to be filmed at 48fps…. Yet there are tell-tale signs of alteration…

1 – no Stop/Start indication at z133

2 – break at 156

3 – break at 207

4 – damage/replacement at z341, z350

5 – no IS area on 486

Adding now Altgens claiming the headshot was right in front of him… and I’m pretty confident that 156 – 350 was originally 48fps…

I just can’t decide whether Z would film the whole thing at one speed to allow for any changes needed… or not.

132 to 133 is about how much time? At 48fps there are plenty of frames to choose the right one to be 133… and to remove ALL the excess… 5 seconds(?) of film at 48fps is 240 frames, PLUS the 2 of 3 frames between 1-132 & 133-156 to get the speed to 18.3.

We can deal with 157-207 and 212 thri 350 once we have a few answers here...

DJ

Edited by David Josephs
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30ft /13.41ft per sec (average overall speed) = 2.237sec.

David,

2.23sec x 18.3 frames per sec = 40frames

Ratio of ft./frames = 3/4.

chris

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30ft /13.41ft per sec (average overall speed) = 2.237sec.

The match from the chart is 2.24mph which =

167frames/18.3 frames per sec = 9.12 sec = 30ft/9.12sec = 3.28ft per sec = 2.237mph.

chris

P.S.

Ratio = 1sec to 1mph

Ratio = ft./frames = 3/4 in terms of 30ft.

Ratio = 1sec to 1mph.

44ft/58frames + 30ft/33frames = 74ft/91frames

91frames/18.3 frames per sec = 4.97 sec.

74ft/4.97 sec = 14.88ft per sec = 10.12 mph

The average speed of the real 362 Z frames over 265.3 ft is 9.12mph.

362frames - 91 frames = 271 frames. Ratio 271/362 = .748 Ratio of frames/frames

265.3ft -44ft = 221.3 ft

265.3 + 30ft = 295.3ft Ratio 221.3/295.3 = .749 Ratio of ft/ft

chris

P.S.

Keeps the limo moving at a steady pace.

Edited by Chris Davidson
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Besides having the limo move at an even pace, the previous posted numbers do have a significance.

44ft/58frames = 3/4= ft/frames ratio.

58 frames is the remainder of 91-33 frames, which coincidentally is the last frame span used by the WC in their measurements (frame255-313).

Frame 255-313 + 33 frames = 346frames (255-346=91 frames)

44ft is the distance from the Towner film start (JFK in limo) to JFK aligned with the TSBD corner.

44ft is also the distance between Station C and Position A so designated by the WC in their measurements.

91 frames is the total frame count from Towner film start (JFK in limo) to JFK aligned with the TSBD corner.

91 frames is 1/4 of the overall 362 frame scenario. In fact, if you look at the first column in the graph I provided previously, notice where the 1/4 marks occur. I'll explain the 271 position (91 x 3) when I post the next graph column.

221.3ft (136.1ft WC frames 161-313) + (85.2ft) is the distance from the TSBD corner (JFK in limo) to extant Z313.

295.3ft is 30ft added to the original overall distance of 265.3ft, which by the way will put you at Station# 4+95.3. Puts you right in the land of Altgens.

Station# 2+00(Towner start) + 265.3ft = Station# 4+65.3 = WC entry for Z313 headshot

Station# 2+00(Towner start) + 295.3ft = Station# 4+95.3 = Altgens headshot

33frames in 30ft = 33/18.3=1.8sec 30ft/1.8 sec = 16.66frames per sec = 11.33mph

1.8sec = difference between Myers film sync using 22.8 frames per sec(Towner film) vs. real 18.3 frames per sec.

167Towner frames/22.8 frames per sec = 7.32 sec.

167Towner frames/18.3 frames per sec = 9.12 sec

Another way to look at it is:

9.12 sec x 18.3 frames per sec = 166.89frames

7.32 sec x 18.3 frames per sec = 133.95frames 33frame difference

chris

P.S.

Splitting the differences.

Accommodating 30ft and 33 frames.

Edited by Chris Davidson
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30ft /13.41ft per sec (average overall speed) = 2.237sec.

The match from the chart is 2.24mph which =

167frames/18.3 frames per sec = 9.12 sec = 30ft/9.12sec = 3.28ft per sec = 2.237mph.

chris

P.S.

Ratio = 1sec to 1mph

Ratio = ft./frames = 3/4 in terms of 30ft.

Ratio = 1sec to 1mph.

44ft/58frames + 30ft/33frames = 74ft/91frames

91frames/18.3 frames per sec = 4.97 sec.

74ft/4.97 sec = 14.88ft per sec = 10.12 mph

The average speed of the real 362 Z frames over 265.3 ft is 9.12mph.

362frames - 91 frames = 271 frames. Ratio 271/362 = .748 Ratio of frames/frames

265.3ft -44ft = 221.3 ft

265.3 + 30ft = 295.3ft Ratio 221.3/295.3 = .749 Ratio of ft/ft

chris

P.S.

Keeps the limo moving at a steady pace.

BTW,

44ft/58frames + 30ft/33frames = 74ft/91frames

91frames/18.3 frames per sec = 4.97 sec.

74ft/4.97 sec = 14.88ft per sec = 10.12 mph

If you would like to connect this back to the overall picture, with 30ft added to the original distance, then compare it to 362frames/295.3ft

362frames/18.3 frames per sec = 19.78 sec.

295.3 ft/19.78 sec = 14.92 ft sec = 10.15 mph

chris

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• 2 months later...
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18.3 frames per sec !!!

The WC gives you distances for Station C, Position A and Z161.

Why do you think they don't give you a distance/Station # for Z133!!!

Hint!!! Think in terms of instantaneous speed.

http://www.mejuba.com/albums/jfkass/112938/5845176/show/original

chris