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As I recall, Howard Hunt used the name "Knight" and it thterefore seems they were alluding to a chess game being played. Perhaps the remaining "pieces on the table" could be connected by unearthing other individuals using chess analogies as pseudonymns.

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Gene, you are correct: Hunt was Knight and Richard McGarrah Helms was Fletcher Knight (insert wisecrack here.)

The term "bishop" comes from a Germanic term meaning "messenger" or "runner".

Phillips did in fact wryly remark to a friend to the effect that his subordinates were pieces on a chessboard to be moved around at his will.

So Gene, from the information I've gathered, your observation is astute.

Whether there are other people who used chess terms, I don't know (perhaps David "The Rook" Morales? ...).

- Steve

Edited by Steve Rosen
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Gaeton Fonzi wrote that David Phillips' relatives were struck by the resemblance between him and the sketch. (The Last Investigation.)

David,

Great point. You are of course correct, and such family observations should be given due weight.

I have the utmost admiration for Gaeton Fonzi and The Last Investigation. His HSCA work was passionate and his book is brilliant.

I would respectfully submit that Fonzi's absolute tenacity and doggedness in pursuing Mr. Bishop had a small but important flaw: Fonzi did not consider or discover that the Bishop name was used by multiple people at the Agency. He was so sure in his heart that the Bishop as described by Antonio Veciana was in fact David Atlee Phillips.

Maybe it was. Veciana was ambiguous and noncommittal on that point.

I believe that Fonzi's conviction was honest, that it was based on more than just the police sketch, and that his theory encompassed a number of similarities in the Veciana-described Mr. Bishop, and the Agency positions that Dave Phillips held.

But as Zach Robertson correctly pointed out on page one of this thread, there are perhaps other Bishop candidates, besides Phillips, who served in Cuba & the Caribbean, worked anti-Castro operations, associated with David Morales, and dealt with Cuban exile fighters.

Again, once you consider that the Bishop name was a pseudonym used by more than one person, the incessant confusion and denial and double talk surrounding the "true identity" of Maurice/Morris Bishop actually makes sense.

Good places to start investigating the Bishop name are on this forum, and at MaryFerrell.org.

- Steve

Edited by Steve Rosen
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  • 2 months later...

On November 22, 2013, Antonio Veciana confirmed in writing that David Atlee Phillips was the man he knew as Maurice Bishop and who met Oswald in September 1963.

Letter below courtesy of Dan Hardway and Marie Fonzi.

As Dan Hardway rightly noted today - why didn't Veciana confirm this in 1978 when it could have blown the case wide open?

For the nonmembers who can't view attachments, the letter says:

---

November 22, 2013

Dear Marie Fonzi:

You may publish the following statement from me:

"Maurice Bishop, my CIA contact agent was David Atlee Phillips. Phillips or Bishop was the man I saw with Lee Harvey Oswald in Dallas on September 1963."

Best regards,

[Antonio Veciana signature]

Antonio Veciana

---

This seems quite significant. It still holds true that multiple officers used the names Maurice and Morris Bishop, but Veciana's clear admission that Phillips was the Bishop he knew and who he saw with Oswald has wide implications.

- Steve

post-5913-0-26244200-1385599068_thumb.jpeg

Edited by Steve Rosen
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As I recall, Howard Hunt used the name "Knight" and it thterefore seems they were alluding to a chess game being played. Perhaps the remaining "pieces on the table" could be connected by unearthing other individuals using chess analogies as pseudonymns.

I came to mention this as well...

The term "Bishop" was also common in British intelligence circles during and after WW2 and was not a "name" as such but a "title".

Trying to dig up a specific reference.

It also helps to avoid paper trails on payroll.

As far as Maurice goes, I'm thinking of a Steve Miller song...

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Thank you Steve, that is a massive disclosure given what we know about their relationship, not only in the U.S. but across Latin America.

For example it would prove that Phillips was driving Alpha 66 in actions which were in direct contradiction to Kennedy administration policy

and official CIA directives.

-- truly a big story, Larry

Edited by Larry Hancock
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Thank you Stu, that is a massive disclosure given what we know about their relationship, not only in the U.S. but across Latin America.

For example it would prove that Phillips was driving Alpha 66 in actions which were in direct contradiction to Kennedy administration policy

and official CIA directives.

-- truly a big story, Larry

Larry,

Yes, and it's fascinating, too, that Phillips and Win Scott were Anne Goodpasture's bosses at the Mexico City CIA station while she was trying to figure out who, in penetrating LIENOVY, had impersonated Oswald over the phone with the Russian embassy there.

Could Phillips have orchestrated this impersonation of Oswald?

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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First, just to be safe, I wonder if Steve could give us some further corroboration on the letter...has Hardaway published this somewhere, I don't find any news stories on it but that may not mean much.

I'd just like to be certain Hardaway, Marie and Veciana will stand behind that letter.

To Tommy, Simpich is certainly making a case Phillips and many other officers were all over the telephone impersonation but that the phone call may have been a surprise to everyone

while events at the embassies were not. If that is true Phillips and his superiors would have almost immediately known that they had been compromised in a variety of ways. But Bill

tells that much better than I...

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Phillips and Angleton working together, but keeping Winston Scott out of the loop - that's my take on who was running Oswald. The impersonations of Oswald in Mexico City were done to tie Oswald to Kostikov and the KGB assassinations unit, making him the perfect patsy. I hope that the next release of documents sheds more light on Phillips and Angleton. If Veciana's statement is real its a bombshell and the beginning of the end of 50 years of CIA coverup.

Meanwhile I am watching Bill Maher knocking conspiracy theorists, falling for the usual crap that those of us who don't believe the lone nut story just can't face the randomness of reality. All of these idiots, Maher, Begala, the other guests, have simply dismissed the possibility of a deep conspiracy without having read one word written by the serious researchers who have spent a lifetime digging for the truth.

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Paul,

Those are good observations.

Phillips and Angleton did not like each other which can be conclusively verified in several written sources.

Such a fallout could be personality differences, or the fact that one of them felt wronged by the other for a legitimate operation surrounding Oswald (say an anti-FPCC operation, which existed) that was later co-opted by another faction or department within the agency.

All educated speculation of course and likely impossible to resolve at this date. But who knows? Many thought that the Bishop issue was hopeless and here we are with fresh information to discuss from 11/22/13. Stranger things, indeed ...

We should all consider that Phillips meeting Veciana and Oswald, if in fact true, may actually cut against Phillips's knowing involvement in 11/22/63, for the obvious reason that no operations officer worth his salt (and Phillips by all accounts was a pillar) would meet an asset they knew would later be used as an assassin or patsy, depending on one's view of Oswald.

The counter argument could be that Phillips was incredibly sloppy, which doesn't seem to be his style. Brash & self-motivated, maybe, but not careless & self-destructive, by most accounts.

As well - we should not necessarily fault Antonio Veciana for not speaking earlier. He was shot in the head in 1976 in what was described as an assassination attempt, shortly after testifying to Congress. What would you do after that?

Keep digging. Who knows what other skeletons may creep up?

-- Steve

Edited by Steve Rosen
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In the historical context, I don't think you can discount an identification of any individual based on whether their "police sketch" accurately portrayed them or not. The sketches are pure conjecture and created using the memory of one person and the drawing skill of another. The sketch above is remarkably accurate and the likeness is apparent. I'm sure Mr. Veciana has seen a photograph of David Philips since that sketch was made and his written statement is based on that if not subsequent "in person" identification.

Add the statement of Shawn Phillips and I think you can safely form an opinion that David Phillips was definately "involved".

Example of police sketch that was close but not exactly accurate:

son+of+sam+police+sktech.jpg

My biggest question would be why would Phillips have Oswald attend a meeting with Veciana in Dallas? It would be nice if Mr. Veciana could explain the subject matter.

Edited by Chris Newton
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Chris, the Veciana/Bishop relationship is exceedingly complex....if you have SWHT take another look at my Phillips chapter which goes into it in detail or get

Fonzi's book. One of the things that is important is that the relationship continued long after 1963 with Phillips/Biship using AID as a cover to get a job for Veciana

in Latin America - while under a restraining order not to leave Miami Dade county. Phillips also used both Veciana and Posada for a variety of actions including

multiple assassination attempts in Latin America. I go over the implications of that in more detail in Shadow Warfare since it addresses the broader picture.

As to your question on Dallas, if you look at the original info from Veciana you find he showed up for a meet in Dallas with Bishop and arrived as a young man who had been talking

with Phillips/Bishop was leaving - after the assassination he felt the young man was identical to Lee Oswald. He may have heard some tag end remarks but it was not a meeting

between the three, set up as a joint meet. It may well have been a brief for Oswald by Phillips before Oswald went to MC for an anti-FPCC propaganda operation, part

of Phillips day job. Veciana was there to talk Castro assassination plots, which were clearly an ongoing subject for he and Phillips - only question was whether or not that was day job

for Phillips or his own private agenda, we have no way of knowing for sure but it "smells" like the latter since Phillips kept at that for years with no sign of a sanctioned project in play.

Edited by Larry Hancock
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