Harvey and Lee: John Armstrong

[Jim Hargrove]

So, Jack White, under pressure, published the H&L theory, and then Disinformation Agent John Armstrong has built upon it ever since. Not that Armstrong was a member of the Dallas pressure group -- it's only that he knew a great business opportunity when he saw it.

And the potentially libelous statement above comes from a man who seems anxious to shift blame for the Kennedy assassination away from American Intelligence. And what have the insiders said over the years about “Lee Harvey Oswald” and the CIA? Let's take a brief look:

* In 1978, CIA accountant James Wilcott testified as follows: “The specific incident was soon after the Kennedy assassination, where an agent, a Case Officer--I am sure it was a Case Officer--came up to my window to draw money, and he specifically said in the conversation that ensued, he specifically said, 'Well, Jim, the money that I drew the last couple of weeks ago or so was money' either for the Oswald project or for Oswald.”

* Richard Sprague, chief counsel to the U.S. House Select Committee on Assassinations said, if he had it to do over again, he would begin his investigation of the Kennedy assassination by probing “Oswald's ties to the Central Intelligence Agency."

* Sen. Richard Schweiker said, "We do know Oswald had intelligence connections. Everywhere you look with him, there're fingerprints of intelligence."

* Victor Marchetti was the former Executive Assistant to the Deputy Director of the CIA. Marchetti said, "The more I have learned, the more concerned I have become that the government was involved in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy."

* Dan Hardway (co-author of HSCA's so-called “Lopez Report”) said to Len Osanic, “I still think that he was killed by a conspiracy, I still think that he was killed by a conspiracy that involved both mobsters and rogue elements of the Central Intelligence Agency, whether or not the agency itself was complicit in it I don’t know.”

* CIA Agent Donald Norton said, "Oswald was with the CIA, and if he did it then you better believe the whole CIA was involved."

* Former CIA agent Joseph Newbrough said, "Oswald was an agent for the CIA and acting under orders."

* CIA Agent John Garrett Underhill told friends, just before he died, "Oswald is a patsy. They set him up. They've killed the President. I've been listening and hearing things. I couldn't believe they'd get away with it, but they did."

* CIA Agent William Gaudet said, "The man who probably knows as much as anybody alive on all of this... is... I still think is Howard Hunt"----CIA Agent and Watergate burglar E. Howard Hunt.

* CIA employee Donald Deneslya read reports of a CIA agent who had worked at a radio factory in Minsk and returned to the US with a Russian wife and child--that agent could only have been Oswald.

* CIA officer David Phillips provided the Warren Commission with information that Oswald was at the Russian and Cuban embassies in Mexico City, then later admitted that the information he had provided was false.

* Marvin Watson, an adviser to President Lyndon Johnson, said that Johnson had told him that he was convinced that there was a plot in connection with the assassination. Watson said the President felt the CIA had something to do with this plot.

* HSCA counsel Robert Tanenbaum in 1996 told the ARRB, "the major area, and I can't overemphasize this, focused on the government and what the government knew about Lee Harvey Oswald... and what the CIA was doing with Lee Harvey Oswald. And what he was doing in New Orleans with anti-Castro Cubans, rabid anti-Castro Cubans, and to get everything you could get from the government with respect to it. And how this government today could want to hold that information and feed the kind of anti-government feeling that results from non-disclosure is really beyond my comprehension.

The idea that John Armstrong gave up more than a decade of his life as a custom home builder and petroleum distributor to research the Kennedy assassination because he saw a "great business opportunity" to write a book is laughable on its face.

Isn't it remarkable that the Harvey and Lee Hit Squad is unconcerned about the obvious ties of the Oswald Project to U.S. intelligence but is so interested in delivering one-line insults about the author of Harvey and Lee!!!

HSCA says this or that? What a bad joke! Just like the murder suspect who investigates himself and proclaims his innocence!

[Jim Hargrove]

And the HSCA found his statements to be without merit, everyone knows all of this already.

The HSCA would say that publicly, wouldn't they?

But does "everyone" know that privately and secretly, according to HSCA notes that I transcribed on the previous page, "Committee did stress analysis on Jim Wilcott. Cuban stress analysis verified Wilcott validity. Available if needed."

[Steven Gaal]

So, Jack White, under pressure, published the H&L theory, and then Disinformation Agent John Armstrong has built upon it ever since. Not that Armstrong was a member of the Dallas pressure group -- it's only that he knew a great business opportunity when he saw it.

And the potentially libelous statement above comes from a man who seems anxious to shift blame for the Kennedy assassination away from American Intelligence. And what have the insiders said over the years about “Lee Harvey Oswald” and the CIA? Let's take a brief look:

* In 1978, CIA accountant James Wilcott testified as follows: “The specific incident was soon after the Kennedy assassination, where an agent, a Case Officer--I am sure it was a Case Officer--came up to my window to draw money, and he specifically said in the conversation that ensued, he specifically said, 'Well, Jim, the money that I drew the last couple of weeks ago or so was money' either for the Oswald project or for Oswald.”

* Richard Sprague, chief counsel to the U.S. House Select Committee on Assassinations said, if he had it to do over again, he would begin his investigation of the Kennedy assassination by probing “Oswald's ties to the Central Intelligence Agency."

* Sen. Richard Schweiker said, "We do know Oswald had intelligence connections. Everywhere you look with him, there're fingerprints of intelligence."

* Victor Marchetti was the former Executive Assistant to the Deputy Director of the CIA. Marchetti said, "The more I have learned, the more concerned I have become that the government was involved in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy."

* Dan Hardway (co-author of HSCA's so-called “Lopez Report”) said to Len Osanic, “I still think that he was killed by a conspiracy, I still think that he was killed by a conspiracy that involved both mobsters and rogue elements of the Central Intelligence Agency, whether or not the agency itself was complicit in it I don’t know.”

* CIA Agent Donald Norton said, "Oswald was with the CIA, and if he did it then you better believe the whole CIA was involved."

* Former CIA agent Joseph Newbrough said, "Oswald was an agent for the CIA and acting under orders."

* CIA Agent John Garrett Underhill told friends, just before he died, "Oswald is a patsy. They set him up. They've killed the President. I've been listening and hearing things. I couldn't believe they'd get away with it, but they did."

* CIA Agent William Gaudet said, "The man who probably knows as much as anybody alive on all of this... is... I still think is Howard Hunt"----CIA Agent and Watergate burglar E. Howard Hunt.

* CIA employee Donald Deneslya read reports of a CIA agent who had worked at a radio factory in Minsk and returned to the US with a Russian wife and child--that agent could only have been Oswald.

* CIA officer David Phillips provided the Warren Commission with information that Oswald was at the Russian and Cuban embassies in Mexico City, then later admitted that the information he had provided was false.

* Marvin Watson, an adviser to President Lyndon Johnson, said that Johnson had told him that he was convinced that there was a plot in connection with the assassination. Watson said the President felt the CIA had something to do with this plot.

* HSCA counsel Robert Tanenbaum in 1996 told the ARRB, "the major area, and I can't overemphasize this, focused on the government and what the government knew about Lee Harvey Oswald... and what the CIA was doing with Lee Harvey Oswald. And what he was doing in New Orleans with anti-Castro Cubans, rabid anti-Castro Cubans, and to get everything you could get from the government with respect to it. And how this government today could want to hold that information and feed the kind of anti-government feeling that results from non-disclosure is really beyond my comprehension.

The idea that John Armstrong gave up more than a decade of his life as a custom home builder and petroleum distributor to research the Kennedy assassination because he saw a "great business opportunity" to write a book is laughable on its face.

Isn't it remarkable that the Harvey and Lee Hit Squad is unconcerned about the obvious ties of the Oswald Project to U.S. intelligence but is so interested in delivering one-line insults about the author of Harvey and Lee!!!

HSCA says this or that? What a bad joke! Just like the murder suspect who investigates himself and proclaims his innocence!

The idea that John Armstrong gave up more than a decade of his life as a custom home builder and petroleum distributor to research the Kennedy assassination because he saw a "great business opportunity" to write a book is laughable on its face.

===================================================

Please let me add my often quoted mini-tome. At 15 half LHO has a oddball social security number not matching his age & area.

David Ferrie who before LHO was 15 half was with LHO and Ferrie had intell connections .. found to have CIA phone exchange of Covert Operations head Helms # 2 man,gaal

Edited July 16, 2015 by Steven Gaal

[W. Tracy Parnell]

And the HSCA found his statements to be without merit, everyone knows all of this already.

The HSCA would say that publicly, wouldn't they?

But does "everyone" know that privately and secretly, according to HSCA notes that I transcribed on the previous page, "Committee did stress analysis on Jim Wilcott. Cuban stress analysis verified Wilcott validity. Available if needed."

Nobody said he lied. He undoubtedly believed what he was saying (why testify so otherwise) and if he did a stress analysis would show just that. But the HSCA found no basis for his claims.

[W. Tracy Parnell]

Isn't it remarkable that the Harvey and Lee Hit Squad is unconcerned about the obvious ties of the Oswald Project to U.S. intelligence but is so interested in delivering one-line insults about the author of Harvey and Lee!!!

HSCA says this or that? What a bad joke! Just like the murder suspect who investigates himself and proclaims his innocence!

Could you give us a list of the "Harvey & Lee Hit Squad"?

Yes the evil HSCA is a "bad joke" until they come up with anything that John Armstrong can use in his silly theory such as the following mystery death:

NOTE: In May 1971, Ed Voebel became ill and was rushed to the hospital. After examining

Voebel, the doctor asked his family if he had been around any poisons, which he had

not. That evening Voebel telephoned his family, said he was feeling fine, and would return

home soon. The following day he died suddenly. In 1978 Voebel's father told the

HSCA that although he had no proof, he believed that his son had died under mysterious

circumstances.

Dozens more examples BTW of Armstrong using the evil FBI, CIA, WC and anyone else when it suits his needs.

[Steven Gaal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwUsZ8RjIqg

John Armstrong - Myra DaRouse Larue Interview Part 1 RE VOEBEL

==============================================

some one commented

licozythree 2 years ago

Myra got one thing right - any photo she may have been shown was not of the boy she claims to remember. The boy she has been convinced by Armstrong was Harvey, was in fact a little kid named Bobby Newman who hung out with Oswald's friend Ed Veobel. see article on this at reopenkennedycase website

=========================

ha ha !! licozythree = CIA's LICOZY3 (the CIA man on the motorcycle in Mexico city)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

WHO IS licozythree (GREG PARKER ????) ,gaal

=========

Could you give us a list of the "Harvey & Lee Hit Squad"? why licozythree

Edited July 16, 2015 by Steven Gaal

[W. Tracy Parnell]

Could you give us a list of the "Harvey & Lee Hit Squad"? why

I am trying to figure out if Jim is claiming we are an organized group or what.

[Paul Trejo]

Could you give us a list of the "Harvey & Lee Hit Squad"? why

I am trying to figure out if Jim is claiming we are an organized group or what.

Well, Tracy, it should be clear that Jim Hargrove invented the phrase, "Harvey & Lee Hit Squad," to mock anybody and everybody who disagrees with John Armstrong's ridiculous theory of H&L.

Like Steven Gaal, Jim Hargrove seems willing to consider that I, Paul Trejo, am working for the CIA, simply because I believe that the CIA isn't a fraction as guilty of the JFK murder as the Dallas right-wing led by Ex-General Edwin Walker.

Well, I'm not working for the CIA, and never have. (But of course, paranoid writers would exclaim that all CIA agents always deny that they work for the CIA. Sigh.)

In short, the phrase, "Harvey & Lee Hit Squad," is another literary trick to promote Armstrong's "H&L" theory, which gives so much credit to the CIA for pre-thinking all this minutia that one comes away with the idea that Armstrong practically worships them as demigods.

Actually, however, since John Armstrong is only making all this up, he is really worshipping himself.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited July 16, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Michael Morrow]

My personal opinion is that these are clearly the same man, taken at different points in his life. Lighting, head tilt, pursing of the lips in the marine photo (edit: I mean photo on the right, I mistook that for a photo of Oswald in the marines) can easily account for many of the subtle differences between photos. I think there is some interesting evidence suggesting there were sightings of "Oswald" in more than one place at once, but this set of photos doesn't convince me we are looking at two different men.

When did his ears drop? Puberty?

His head is clearly tilted more downward in the right photo, which would make his ears appear higher. If you don't understand how perspective works, I'm afraid there is no helping you.

[Ray Mitcham]

My personal opinion is that these are clearly the same man, taken at different points in his life. Lighting, head tilt, pursing of the lips in the marine photo (edit: I mean photo on the right, I mistook that for a photo of Oswald in the marines) can easily account for many of the subtle differences between photos. I think there is some interesting evidence suggesting there were sightings of "Oswald" in more than one place at once, but this set of photos doesn't convince me we are looking at two different men.

When did his ears drop? Puberty?

His head is clearly tilted more downward in the right photo, which would make his ears appear higher. If you don't understand how perspective works, I'm afraid there is no helping you.

In that case his chin should be lower in the right photo.

[W. Tracy Parnell]

Could you give us a list of the "Harvey & Lee Hit Squad"? why

I am trying to figure out if Jim is claiming we are an organized group or what.

Well, Tracy, it should be clear that Jim Hargrove invented the phrase, "Harvey & Lee Hit Squad," to mock anybody and everybody who disagrees with John Armstrong's ridiculous theory of H&L.

Like Steven Gaal, Jim Hargrove seems willing to consider that I, Paul Trejo, am working for the CIA, simply because I believe that the CIA isn't a fraction as guilty of the JFK murder as the Dallas right-wing led by Ex-General Edwin Walker.

Well, I'm not working for the CIA, and never have. (But of course, paranoid writers would exclaim that all CIA agents always deny that they work for the CIA. Sigh.)

In short, the phrase, "Harvey & Lee Hit Squad," is another literary trick to promote Armstrong's "H&L" theory, which gives so much credit to the CIA for pre-thinking all this minutia that one comes away with the idea that Armstrong practically worships them as demigods.

Actually, however, since John Armstrong is only making all this up, he is really worshipping himself.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Thanks Paul, makes sense and I agree with you.

[David Josephs]

My personal opinion is that these are clearly the same man, taken at different points in his life. Lighting, head tilt, pursing of the lips in the marine photo (edit: I mean photo on the right, I mistook that for a photo of Oswald in the marines) can easily account for many of the subtle differences between photos. I think there is some interesting evidence suggesting there were sightings of "Oswald" in more than one place at once, but this set of photos doesn't convince me we are looking at two different men.

When did his ears drop? Puberty?

His head is clearly tilted more downward in the right photo, which would make his ears appear higher. If you don't understand how perspective works, I'm afraid there is no helping you.

Mr Morrow, you berate Ray here about perspective and you claim authority while measuring a 3d dimension on a 2d image by drawing some line... there is something called photogrammetry which is a complex method for measuring objects on a 2d space which results in 3d analysis. What you did can best be called "eye-balling" it...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photogrammetry Photogrammetry is the science of making measurements from photographs, especially for recovering the exact positions of surface points.

What you've actually done above, frankly, is a joke in relation to the comparison of two different images... personal opinions aside, this work doesn't prove your opinion, it only proves how little you know about measuring distance in photographs...

Knowing something about perspective you'd also know your comment about why the ears appear "higher" is complete gibberish. (your pick line even proves the opposite of what your opinion is - it shows these people's faces are NOT the same at all... why exactly do you ignore the results of this work in the first place? You basically prove the images do not match at all, and then state the opposite as an opinion...

and then get on Ray related to perspective which you completely fubar.

http://commonsensephotography.com/what_is_camera_perspective/index.php Below are examples of a 24mm lens and a 200mm lens taken from the same position.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspective_distortion_(photography) gives you a walkthru example of different focal lengths and photographer distances to the same object...

You'd also know you'd need to know much more about the taking of these images to be able to compare them at all....

How far from each camera were these images taken?

With what lens do you think each was taken - 35mm, 50mm, zoomed or not - the same for each or not?

What is the scale of each image to the original negative?

If the two images were taken with different settings or distances of any kind it is impossible to use lines, pixels or anything else for that matter to compare or measure what is seen on the images.

Maybe read up alittle about measuring distance on a 2d representation of 3d space... It's nice you think it is so easy as to just draw a few lines... sadly, that's not at all how it works.

By sizing and lining up the right ear we can at least see how the two images work with each other... no measurements, just starting with a feature that is sized to match each other which SHOULD result in the faces matching each other...

What we also find is that no matter what we do we cannot get LEE's dropped shoulders to match Harvey's more straight shoulders

But if there is something you can do to make them match... let's see what you got.

There is that fact as well that the 1959 Passport image and the image of Harvey from a week or so later do not appear too similar

[W. Tracy Parnell]

David Josephs said:

there is something called photogrammetry which is a complex method for measuring objects on a 2d space which results in 3d analysis. What you did can best be called "eye-balling" it...

That is precisely the point. What everyone is doing, including yourself David, is eyeballing. Now since your side is making the claim of two Oswalds will you kindly point us to a study based on photogrammetry conducted by scientists that supports your position. I'll save you time-there isn't one. There is however an HSCA study based on scientific principals that shows that one photo of "Harvey" and one of "Lee" are of the same individual. But you will never hear you or any of the H&L people mention that. I know, the HSCA can't be believed right? That is unless John Armstrong is using them in his book to make a point. Then they can suddenly be seen as righteous truth-tellers.

Morrow is simply trying to explain that the tilt of the head, body posture, etc. can be different and explain some of the things pointed out by your true believers. The fact is, without scientific analysis any one of the presentations here is no better than the other including yours. Now I'll be waiting for your scientific presentation but I won't hold my breath.

Edited July 16, 2015 by W. Tracy Parnell

[Bernie Laverick]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwUsZ8RjIqg

John Armstrong - Myra DaRouse Larue Interview Part 1 RE VOEBEL

==============================================

some one commented

licozythree 2 years ago

Myra got one thing right - any photo she may have been shown was not of the boy she claims to remember. The boy she has been convinced by Armstrong was Harvey, was in fact a little kid named Bobby Newman who hung out with Oswald's friend Ed Veobel. see article on this at reopenkennedycase website

=========================

ha ha !! licozythree = CIA's LICOZY3 (the CIA man on the motorcycle in Mexico city)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

WHO IS licozythree (GREG PARKER ????) ,gaal

=========

Could you give us a list of the "Harvey & Lee Hit Squad"? why licozythree

Barking mad...!

WHO IS (GREG PARKER????) He's an entity Steven. A COINTELPRO op and he's under your bed! He's in your wardrobe and he's in your shed. We all are. Watching you. Making sure you don't tell the world about the secrets that only you and the CIA know. The future of corporate America is totally dependent on making sure Steven Gaal is silenced. This is us trying to do that. But... You've rumbled us!

Not for the first time we all have to ask Steven Gaal...What on earth are you talking about?

This cult, note that its main proponents are religious fanatics, will go to any lengths to divert and slither away from anyone who challenges their guru.

Btw, in the five years these interviews have been on You Tube none have had more than 2,000 hits, (that's about one a day!). Jeez, even my crappy songs are more popular than that!

Can we just let this silliness go now and start addressing the real issue?

[Paul Trejo]

BUMP

Edited July 16, 2015 by Paul Trejo