Harvey and Lee: John Armstrong

[Paul Trejo]

Get your facts straight FIRST Paul... or will that request always fall on deaf ears?

Well, David, both of those photographs you keep reproducing are clearly RETOUCHED in multiple ways, and so you're really demonstrating nothing at all about Lee Harvey Oswald.

Besides which, the photo on the left is a man looking slightly upward, while the photo on the right is a man looking slightly downward -- and this always makes the nose and ears look different. Tsk.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited July 17, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Evan Burton]

Bernie / Stephen,

One warning only: do not make claims that someone is a paid agent, etc. If you believe you have proof of such then contact a mod for permission to post it... but be warned - if you are going to accuse someone of such then the bar for such proof is set high.

This goes for other Forum members as well.

[Greg Parker]

Bernie / Stephen,

One warning only: do not make claims that someone is a paid agent, etc. If you believe you have proof of such then contact a mod for permission to post it... but be warned - if you are going to accuse someone of such then the bar for such proof is set high.

This goes for other Forum members as well.

Where did Bernie do that, Evan? Unless you can provide some evidence to back up that accusation, you should retract. This forum is going to hell in a hand basket because of the ludicrous rules - that like the tax system - have built in exploitable loopholes. And even when someone decides to start "enforcing" rules, it is done in the most haphazard way imaginable.

Which leads to the other issue... those who exploit those loopholes, or who are avoided in the haphazard round-ups of "evil-doers".

Rules should be enforced 100% AND EVENLY OR scrapped.

Those who are shilling for theories that have been thoroughly debunked should be banned and sent back to the Bates Motel (aka Deepfoofoo)

Those who continually repeat discredited information should be banned

Those who continually rely upon a whole gamut of logical fallacies should be banned

Those whose posts nearly always exceed 400,000 words and consist of 10 different font styles, 20 different colors and include more than a single emoticon should be banned (it is actually another form of fallacious argument).

Do all of that, and you will have the forum it should be.

In the meantime... do what is right, in the absence of evidence, and apologize to Bernie.

Just my .025 cents.

[Greg Parker]

From the hardlylee.nut website that my new malwarebytes software warns me about every time I go there:

The record (IBM card) on OSWALD was pulled from the files. Several other employees (5 or 6) of the Department saw the driver's license which was dirty and worn as though it had been carried in a billfold. The license was the talk of the office that day since everyone knew who OSWALD was, and the reason his driver's license records were being pulled from the active file was the fact that he had been killed.

Lee's driver's license application. I submit that this dirty and worn document is what was seen by staff at the Department of Public Safety. It was taken by investigators and claimed to have been found at N Beckley.

[Steven Gaal]

Bernie / Stephen,

One warning only: do not make claims that someone is a paid agent, etc. If you believe you have proof of such then contact a mod for permission to post it... but be warned - if you are going to accuse someone of such then the bar for such proof is set high.

This goes for other Forum members as well.

WHEN WERE DID I SAY THAT ANYONE WAS A PAID AGENT ?? PLEASE ELABORTE Mr. Burton. ,gaal

[Steven Gaal]

From the hardlylee.nut website that my new malwarebytes software warns me about every time I go there:

The record (IBM card) on OSWALD was pulled from the files. Several other employees (5 or 6) of the Department saw the driver's license which was dirty and worn as though it had been carried in a billfold. The license was the talk of the office that day since everyone knew who OSWALD was, and the reason his driver's license records were being pulled from the active file was the fact that he had been killed.

Lee's driver's license application. I submit that this dirty and worn document is what was seen by staff at the Department of Public Safety. It was taken by investigators and claimed to have been found at N Beckley.

Above dirty and worn and his actual Drivers License was dirty and worn (I submit).

Four of the DMV employees sworn under oath ,in a POTUS murder investigation, they had seen the LHO DRIVER LICENSE.

I submit that DMV employees know the difference from a Drivers License application from a actual drivers license. ,gaal

[David Josephs]

One of the things that most bother me about the USMC records is the conflict between "Aircraft Control and Warning Operator" school (Radar operator) and the recommendation as well as preference of duty in his records as a "Aircraft Maintenance and Repair"...

With as poor hearing as he had, I fail to see how he gets into a Air Traffic Control. Felde tells us that his Oswald did not go to Biloxi but was in Florida thru July when they go to "Aviation Electronics School" in Memphis TN which as I understand it would be for Aircraft Maintenance and Repair, not Air traffic controller...

http://www.marines.com/being-a-marin...ement/avionics
Marines in the Avionics field install, remove, inspect, test, maintain and repair all aviation weapons and electrical systems. They also support communications, radar and navigation systems.

http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?...eId=2&tab=page

On the next page in that WCD with the Landes info WCD131, we are told yet another little white lie by the FBI who, when necessary, couldn't find their bum with two hands and a flashlight...

"The records fail to name any personnel assigned or attending above school with Oswald"

When in reality the records could not be more clear... and later on, Powers produces the orders for these six men at his testimony..

Mr. POWERS. I have the travel orders, and if you want them-----
Mr. JENNER. Fine. If you have anything from which you may refresh your recollection so that we can have the exact date, I appreciate it.
Mr. POWERS. This would be, 2 May 1957 is on the date of these orders.
Mr. POWERS. Yes.
"Effective 3 May 1957, the below listed marines are directed to report to the 3380th Technical Training Group, 3383d Student Squadron, Block 21, Building 17, Shipping and Receiving Section, Keesler Air Force Base, Biloxi, Miss., for duty under instruction, USNAC&W Operators Course No. AB27037, Class 08057, for a period of about 6 weeks. Upon arrival thereat, they will report to the Commanding Officer for duty."
And then it lists six marines with Lee H. Oswald as one of these marines.

Mr. POWERS. (1Pfc. Edward J. Bandoni.) 551427. Pfc. James N. Brereton, 1644586; Pfc. Donald P. Camarata, 1632342.
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me. Would you check that number again as against mine? I had 1653230, am I in error?
Mr. POWERS. You're in error, sir. It's 1632342. The next name that appears is Lee H. Oswald, private, first class, 1653230. And the next name is my name, Powers, Daniel P., 1497089. And the next name that appears is Schrand, Martin E., private, first class, 1639694


Mr. POWERS. Up to--you could say that's true to a certain extent. We did attend school there. Then from Mississippi we were assigned orders to go overseas, and report to El Toro, Calif. Here, while we were at Mississippi, it was parallel. We attended the same classes, and in the same particular group as far as the initial starting of training and graduation, if you would like to call it that.
Mr. JENNER Yes.
Mr. POWERS. And then once we got to California, they changed somewhat because some of the people reported in early to California and some of them reported later, so this getting into an overseas draft meant that some were leaving out of California earlier than others, of course, which would mean their assignments as far as orders, were different.
I would say that four of the names mentioned previously, Camarata, Oswald, Powers, and Schrand, went to the Far East; Bandoni and Brereton, I'm not sure where they went. I think they went to the east coast, as I recall

Mr. JENNER. Did he ever express any sympathy toward the Communist Party?
Mr. POWERS. None that I recall.
Mr. JENNER. Toward Communist principles?
Mr. POWERS. None that I recall.
Mr. JENNER. Or Marxist doctrines?
Mr. POWERS. None that I recall; no, sir.

HARVEY was said to be spouting off on Communism and Marxism a great deal of the time... This is NOT Harvey Mr. Powers here is talking about... but LEE and helps to illustrate the existence of these two separate men seen and traveling with different Marines.

Add this to the Ping Tung duplicity, the Gorsky duplicity, and a significantly large number of other conflicts AS OFFERED BY THE WCR which supports the existence of two Oswalds at the same time and I'm sure the H&L critics will have plenty to work on in their attempt to find other answers for these conflicts...

I see noone has addressed the HSCA, Blakey and the DoD lying about where Oswald was... maybe instead of claiming an application is a driver's license with no sources and nothing but pure speculation you biys can address the actual meat of the situation... The EVIDENCE IS THE CONSPIRACY...

How can Donovan be with Oswald in the Phillipines if he was never there, or how he can be with Oswald thru the Summer and Fall of 1959 when Gorsky has him discharged in March 1959...

Edited July 17, 2015 by David Josephs

[Greg Parker]

From the hardlylee.nut website that my new malwarebytes software warns me about every time I go there:

The record (IBM card) on OSWALD was pulled from the files. Several other employees (5 or 6) of the Department saw the driver's license which was dirty and worn as though it had been carried in a billfold. The license was the talk of the office that day since everyone knew who OSWALD was, and the reason his driver's license records were being pulled from the active file was the fact that he had been killed.

Lee's driver's license application. I submit that this dirty and worn document is what was seen by staff at the Department of Public Safety. It was taken by investigators and claimed to have been found at N Beckley.

Above dirty and worn and his actual Drivers License was dirty and worn (I submit).

Four of the DMV employees sworn under oath ,in a POTUS murder investigation, they had seen the LHO DRIVER LICENSE.

I submit that DMV employees know the difference from a Drivers License application from a actual drivers license. ,gaal

All of a sudden the importance of a POTUS murder investigation elevates non-sworn statements to new heights of infallibility for the H & L clown brigade!!! This is the same mob of gallahs that don't believe a single document in the record UNLESS it can be twisted to fit the theory. And that is EXACTLY what is happening here. Those unsworn statements are being held aloft as sacred documents because the fallible memory of those involved can be used once again to advantage

Don't come the raw prawn with me, pal.

Produce the driver's license, or shut yer gob.

And what's with Brian Doyle over at the Bates Motel (aka DeepFooFoo)? Wasn't he warned not to try and conduct cross-forum debates? Looks like he can't help himself. He's too much of a coward to come here and debate - just like they were too cowardly to allow me to stay there and debate them.

[Greg Parker]

I see noone has addressed the HSCA, Blakey and the DoD lying about where Oswald was..

That's because I see no one providing the actual source document. Take yours or Armstrong's word for what anything says? When pigs fly.

Produce the document and then I'll discuss it.

[Greg Parker]

Jim Hargrove from his bunker at the Foo: Mrs. Frair swore the license "was dirty and worn as though it had been carried in a billfold." It also seems highly unlikely that workers at the driver's license facility of DPS would be unable to distinguish between an application and an actual license.

No one is calling their EYESIGHT into question, only their MEMORY - which studies show to be a fallible function.

Produce the LICENSE or admit that the DIRTY AND WORN application is what they saw.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Greg Parker

[W. Tracy Parnell]

Armstrong has now updated his article "The Story of Two Steven Landesbergs". The "red bearded man" is gone as is the "3 am interview". I will decide how to update my own site to reflect these changes, but the history of these misrepresentations will be documented. A small concession, but his premise is still false and he is still taking liberties with the facts in other ways.

[David Josephs]

I see noone has addressed the HSCA, Blakey and the DoD lying about where Oswald was..

That's because I see no one providing the actual source document. Take yours or Armstrong's word for what anything says? When pigs fly.

Produce the document and then I'll discuss it.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19762&page=68#entry308997

you must have been on a time out

Funny thing is it was YOU Greg who pointed out the DoD letter as an argument that Oswald never left Atsugi - too bad you don't remember that.

So I guess we need to understand how Donovan can know Oswald in the Phillipines if he never went...

Or how he is on the ship manifest on Oct 6th coming back from Taiwan Phillipines - if he never left Japan....

Focus on the EVIDENCE Greg, I know you can do it.

If he is sailing back from Ping Tung on the 6th of October... the Donabedian Exhibit showing his STD treatments in Japan from Sept 14th thru the 5th of Oct must be referring to some other Lee Oswald as is CE1961 which clearly states he went and was at Ping Tung North Taiwan on Sept 30th... yet was treated in Atsugi on Sept 16, 20, 22, 23, & 29th...

So you get to explain how this evidence does not show one man in two locations simultaneously

[David Josephs]

Armstrong has now updated his article "The Story of Two Steven Landesbergs". The "red bearded man" is gone as is the "3 am interview". I will decide how to update my own site to reflect these changes, but the history of these misrepresentations will be documented. A small concession, but his premise is still false and he is still taking liberties with the facts in other ways.

You going to turn the big brain now to proving Oswald shot JFK as you believe... or you only good for taking on other people's work?

How about that thread of your own work proving your beliefs - or do you not hold your work out for examination and analysis?

You see Tracy - I've been to your LHO Research Page - and I come to find nothing but a couple H&L arguments and no original content whatsoever besides your book reviews.

July 2001? Keeping things up to date we see

Three Key Areas That Disprove the Armstrong Theory

Newsgroup Post by W. Tracy Parnell

July 2001

1. HSCA Fingerprint and Photo Analysis.

2. HSCA Handwriting Analysis

3. Oswald Exhumation

Really? The HSCA is your source material which disproves the H&L evidence in the record... that'll take you far

Acknowledgements

Thanks to the following people who helped make this site possible:

Stephen E. Lewis (contributor)

John McAdams (site host)

Jerry Organ (contributor)

Vince Palamara (contributor)

Carol Parnell (editor)

Dave Reitzes (contributor)

Gary Sumner (contributor)

Very impressive set of people Tracy... you should have no trouble at all proving your POV

To be fair your blog was started in April of this year yet you do seem to be focused predominantly on H&L....

Posts by category

•Category: "Harvey & Lee"

Rizzuto’s Lies

Latest Armstrong Tale Now DOA

The 3 AM Interview

Using Photos to Misrepresent

Orvie Aucoin

So What?

Myrtle, Julian and Clem

LHO at Monnig

Frankenstein Oswald

Harvey & Lee: Who Was Involved in the Plot?

Leander D’Avy

•Category: Conspiracy Theories ◦Paul Groody’s Theory

Jack White and the LHO Exhumation Photos

Conspiracy Theorists and Suspension of Disbelief

•Category: LHO ◦The Hunter Photo

•Category: Marguerite Oswald ◦Marguerite Never Smiled

Marguerite and The Fort Worth Press

•Category: News ◦Gary Mack

Do you ever plan to get around to your OSWALD DID IT threads and posts which present YOUR WORK which shows the WCR was correct - at least DVP has the persistence to stick by his convictions...

Mission Statement (tracy's blog)

I believe the evidence shows that Lee Harvey Oswald is guilty of the crime of assassinating President John F. Kennedy. The goal of this website is to present articles and other information that will refute conspiracy theories and clarify facts.

Edited July 17, 2015 by David Josephs

[Greg Parker]

Funny thing is it was YOU Greg who pointed out the DoD letter as an argument that Oswald never left Atsugi - too bad you don't remember that.

You're right. I don't remember doing that. Please refresh my memory by pointing to it.

So I guess we need to understand how Donovan can know Oswald in the Phillipines if he never went...

Donovan - the former FBI agent - was a demonstrable xxxx. He did not know Oswald in SEA. He would eventually claim to remember for one purpose and one purpose only; to suggest in so many ways that Oswald had been recruited by the Soviets.

The photo with John Wayne in the foreground is the only evidence anyone needs to show Oswald made the trip. It was taken at Corregidor in the Philippines.

I have a complete chronology of Oswald in SEA. It includes information not previously published.

[Greg Parker]

The ONI files actually existed, but were admittedly destroyed. (incorrect, never admitted they existed,gaal)

[2] Steel, Robert D. Oral History interview transcript w/Steel. (Attached)

Steel recently reaffirmed the contents of the letter – that he personally knew both Arthur C. Sullivan, who he identified as the head of the Dallas ONI office, as well as Dallas detective Paul Bentley, and that his agency, the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI), did indeed have “quite a file on Oswald.”

-------------

Oswald’s ONI File

The Warren Report mentioned that “….the Commission has reviewed the complete files on Oswald, as they existed at the time of the assassination, of the Department of State, the Office of Naval Intelligence, the FBI and the CIA.”

Using that reference, Paul Hoch requested and acquired a 300 page ONI file in 1967, which he says is definitely not one of the USMC files the The Warren Commission published (two USMC files, personnel and medical, as the Folsom and Donabedian Exhibits.), but that it did include a reference to Oswald’s Soviet Embassy visit in Mexico and: “Information presently available to the Office of Naval Intelligence does not indicate what significance, if any, this contact may have represented, and no other information on OSWALD was received until 22 November 1963.”

It also included the Taylor memo to McDonald about Patterson, which establishes the fact that Admiral Taylor, the director of ONI, took a keen interest in the ONI affairs in Dallas immediately after the assassination, and suspected an association between Oswald and Ruby.

http://archive.politicalassassinations.net/2013/02/oswalds-oni-records-revisited/

Edited July 18, 2015 by Greg Parker