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Was Marrion Baker the True Source of Inspector Sawyer's Suspect Description?


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Looks like the buck stops with the S.S. again?.

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Getting back to the thread's title for a second... Sawyer was in the TSBD from about 12:34 till 12:37...

His testimony states he and 2 others went up to the 4th floor "for a look around"... gave it a once over and came back down, running into Baker.

The broadcast with the description was not until 12:44...

If he heard from Baker this description... and was out front by his car and radio by 12:37 or so....

Why wait to broadcast it...

Harkness and Haygood as well as Brewer have taken "witnesses" to the front of the tSBD... this includes Euins and Brennan, and by 12:40 in every case....

I see no reason that while out front with witnesses and other police, Sawyer would not have heard this description from SOMEONE....

If Sawyer does indeed mirrot Baker, then we know for SURE it was not Oswald, as it was not Oswald who Baker describes on the stairs....

I too agree the lunch story was inserted... for some reason... to get Oswald into the lunchroom.... I guess since so many people saw him there at that time.

The 5'11" 165lbs was a standard used to describe Ozzie... yet he was NEVER that tall or that heavy.... but LEE was....

OswaldMarinedischargeheight-weightv3.jpg

David,

I think LHO was described over the years as being either 5' 9" or 5' 10", usually the former. Marguerite Oswald said that her son LHO never weighed more than 150 lbs his whole life. Regarding Armstrong's "Lee," the document you posted says 71 inches (5' 11") and 150 lbs, not the 165 lbs you mention, so said document partially refutes the point you're trying to make.

I got the following from "Endgame in Mexico City" by Bill Simpich on Joe Backes website. New Orleans FBI agent John Quigley wrote a memo about LHO and sent it to CIA on September 24, 1963 (but it wasn't received by CIA until October 4th). In the memo Quigley wrote that Oswald was:

"Not five ten, five nine, not 165, 140, not light wavy brown hair, takes [sic] the wavy out, not blue eyes, blue-hazel eyes."

I'm pretty sure Quigley got this accurate description of LHO (five-nine, 140 lbs) from Ozzie's Office of Naval Intelligence files

http://webcache.goog...lient=firefox-a

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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Lee

Florers arrest is on film if we can Id the cop/sheriff with him (white hat)

I think it's the cooper film.Braden in his alibi described the rifle being taken from

The TSBD as the way they were holding it was not normal but he describes

The rope/string sling not the leather strap like the Nara model .

Counsel tries to help him but he must have seen the backyard Carcano

As this has a rope sling?, then he cannot lie round the fact the HSCA ignored it.

Sean

Both Braden and Florer gave the same alibi but it was reported by lift operater (William Sharper interviewed by Warren De Breuys)as being a stranger in the building(Dal-Tex)

And "in the building at the time" both Braden And Florer were on the third floor but where the reports are vague.

Lummie Lewis was given Florer to take to DPD along with the lady that Craig

Stopped in the TSBD car park she could be the 40 yr old sales rep .

It's obvious more time elapsed than has been reported as Truly also phoned his wife before the Baker/stairs trip.

I am wondering if Oswald was in the small vestibule on the first floor

When asked for a phone by the ID wielding person and that's how his name

And wrong address were on Revills list at the top and he was simply let go then?.

Ian

Edited by Ian Kingsbury
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  • 1 month later...

"There were no strangers in the TSBD"

Perhaps the sheep that thought this one up could enlighten us?.

Neither Braden nor Florer had on a tan/light brown jacket.

According to Bakers first day affadavit this was on the third/fourth floor

And Truly knew this person.

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  • 7 months later...

Lee

Florers arrest is on film if we can Id the cop/sheriff with him (white hat)

I think it's the cooper film.Braden in his alibi described the rifle being taken from

The TSBD as the way they were holding it was not normal but he describes

The rope/string sling not the leather strap like the Nara model .

Counsel tries to help him but he must have seen the backyard Carcano

As this has a rope sling?, then he cannot lie round the fact the HSCA ignored it.

Sean

Both Braden and Florer gave the same alibi but it was reported by lift operater (William Sharper interviewed by Warren De Breuys)as being a stranger in the building(Dal-Tex)

And "in the building at the time" both Braden And Florer were on the third floor but where the reports are vague.

Lummie Lewis was given Florer to take to DPD along with the lady that Craig

Stopped in the TSBD car park she could be the 40 yr old sales rep .

It's obvious more time elapsed than has been reported as Truly also phoned his wife before the Baker/stairs trip.

I am wondering if Oswald was in the small vestibule on the first floor

When asked for a phone by the ID wielding person and that's how his name

And wrong address were on Revills list at the top and he was simply let go then?.

Ian

Hello Ian

Are you saying that Truly telephoned his wife before he and Baker made their trip upstairs? Would you please direct me to the source of this information? Thanks.

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Why would Baker or Truly describe whomever they encountered, as a suspect (to Sawyer)...when they had just let him go on Truly's word?

-Bill

Because maybe Sawyer asked them, "Well, fellers, did ya run into anybody up there?"

(Just an idea.)

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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Why would Baker or Truly describe whomever they encountered, as a suspect (to Sawyer)...when they had just let him go on Truly's word?

-Bill

Because maybe Sawyer asked them, "Well, fellers, did ya run into anybody up there?"

(Just an idea.)

--Tommy :sun

Indeed, one of those "fellers" had just seen Oswald in the 2nd floor lunchroom, yet, by the time he returned to the 1st floor, he somehow knew Oswald was missing from the TSBD and was quick to point this out to Chief Lumkin.

Edited by Robert Prudhomme
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Lee

Florers arrest is on film if we can Id the cop/sheriff with him (white hat)

I think it's the cooper film.Braden in his alibi described the rifle being taken from

The TSBD as the way they were holding it was not normal but he describes

The rope/string sling not the leather strap like the Nara model .

Counsel tries to help him but he must have seen the backyard Carcano

As this has a rope sling?, then he cannot lie round the fact the HSCA ignored it.

Sean

Both Braden and Florer gave the same alibi but it was reported by lift operater (William Sharper interviewed by Warren De Breuys)as being a stranger in the building(Dal-Tex)

And "in the building at the time" both Braden And Florer were on the third floor but where the reports are vague.

Lummie Lewis was given Florer to take to DPD along with the lady that Craig

Stopped in the TSBD car park she could be the 40 yr old sales rep .

It's obvious more time elapsed than has been reported as Truly also phoned his wife before the Baker/stairs trip.

I am wondering if Oswald was in the small vestibule on the first floor

When asked for a phone by the ID wielding person and that's how his name

And wrong address were on Revills list at the top and he was simply let go then?.

Ian

Hello Ian

Are you saying that Truly telephoned his wife before he and Baker made their trip upstairs? Would you please direct me to the source of this information? Thanks.

I have read Truly's testimony to the WC several times, and can find no reference by him to a phone call to his wife prior to the Truly/Baker ascent to the roof.

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  • 2 years later...

Inspector Sawyer's testimony suggests that he most likely knew the person who had communicated the description of the suspect. In particular, the answer " Except that he was--I don't remember what he was wearing." suggests that Inspector Sawyer started to report a detail of who the man was but then he backed and continued in his "I do not know" style. If he was able to say who the man was based on the man's clothing, the man in question might have been a uniformed police officer. If the witness who gave the description of the suspect to Inspector Sawyer was a police officer, the question would be why would Inspector Sawyer choose to conceal the identity of the witness. I wonder if there was any escort to bring the man to Sherriff Office, or who was in the escort should there have been any.

Mr. BELIN. Do you know this person's name?
Mr. SAWYER. I do not.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know anything about him, what he was wearing?
Mr. SAWYER. Except that he was--I don't remember what he was wearing. I remember that he was a white man and that he wasn't young and he wasn't old. He was there. That is the only two things that I can remember about him.
Mr. BELIN. What age would you categorize as young?
Mr. SAWYER. Around 35 would be my best recollection of it, but it could be a few years either way.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember if he was tall or short, or can't you remember anything about him?
Mr. SAWYER. I can't remember that much about him. I was real hazy about that.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember where he said he was standing when he saw the person with the rifle?
Mr. SAWYER. I didn't go into detail with him except that from the best of my recollection, he was standing where he could have seen him. But there were too many people coming up with questions to go into detail. I got the description and sent him on over to the Sheriff's Office.
Mr. BELIN. Inspector, do you remember anything else about this person who you say gave you the primary description?
Mr. SAWYER. No, I do not, except that I did send him with an escort to the Sheriff's Office to give fuller or more complete detail.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know if he was taken there to see a lineup at the police station?
Mr. SAWYER. No.
Mr. BELIN. Did you ever see him again?
Mr. SAWYER. Not to my knowledge.

Edited by Andrej Stancak
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Even in James Herbert Sawyer's HSCA testimony (thanks to Denis Morissette), the person that gave him the description is referred to as "someone".

Just on a point of accuracy - this is not Sawyer's HSCA testimony, but an interview report, based on a November 1977 interview of Sawyer carried out by HSCA investigator Harold Rose.

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Even in James Herbert Sawyer's HSCA testimony (thanks to Denis Morissette), the person that gave him the description is referred to as "someone".

Just on a point of accuracy - this is not Sawyer's HSCA testimony, but an interview report, based on a November 1977 interview of Sawyer carried out by HSCA investigator Harold Rose.

And correct you are Chris!

Thanks for pointing this out and I shall amend.

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  • 3 years later...

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