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Where are the conspirators now?


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I was just thinking over some things with the current situation in mind. in my opinion the assassination of JFK was very monitarily motivated among the people higher up in society and was more personal and political among other sections (Cubans, Howard Hunt), those people who gained from the assassintion made a lot of money and in my opinion are now in power but my question is, does the power now lie with the Neo-Cons in the white house with the CIA as was the case in the 60s, have the big cats now bypassed the CIA as they have gotten what they want, power?

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Hi,

I was just thinking over some things with the current situation in mind. in my opinion the assassination of jfk was very monitarily motivated among the people higher up in society and was more personal and political among other sections(cubans, howard hunt), those people who gained from the assassintion made a lot of money and in my opinion are now in power but my question is, does the power now lie with the neo-cons in the white house r with the CIA as was the case in the 60s, have the big cats now bypassed the CIA as they have gotten what they want, power?

john

YES!

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I was just thinking over some things with the current situation in mind. in my opinion the assassination of JFK was very monitarily motivated among the people higher up in society and was more personal and political among other sections (Cubans, Howard Hunt), those people who gained from the assassintion made a lot of money and in my opinion are now in power but my question is, does the power now lie with the Neo-Cons in the white house  with the CIA as was the case in the 60s, have the big cats now bypassed the CIA as they have gotten what they want, power?

It is an interesting question about the relationship between the Neo-Cons, the CIA and the JFK assassination.

The link between the Neo-Cons and the CIA dates back to George H. W. Bush being appointed by Gerald Ford (a member of the Warren Commission) as head of the CIA. One of the first things that Bush did was to persuade Ford to establish a system where a team of “outside experts” would take an independent look at the highly classified data used by the intelligence community to assess Soviet strategic forces.

This became known as the B Team (I assume the CIA were the A Team). The chairman of B Team was Richard Pipes, professor of history at Harvard. Members of the B team included several of those prominent in the Neo-Cons movement today. This included Paul Nitze, Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle. The group also got support from Donald Rumsfeld (Secretary of Defense) and Dick Cheney (Ford's White House Chief of Staff).

The B Team came to the conclusion that the Soviet Union posed a far greater than the government realised. They argued that even though the intelligence community could not find hard evidence that the Soviets had a superior system of offensive weapons, this did not mean that they did not exist. All it meant was that they had discovered new ways of hiding this information.

The B Team also came to the conclusion that the Soviets were behind all terrorist groups throughout the world. Something they desribed as the "Terrorist Network". Although they could not prove it, they believed it. For them it was an act of faith (a bit like WMD in Iraq). However, they did find some evidence of this in CIA classified documents.

In 1981 William Casey became Director of the CIA. He was another Neo Con and worked very closely with the B Team. He demanded an immediate investigation into the claims made by the B Team that the Soviets were behind this “Terrorist Network”.

The CIA reported back that they could not find any evidence that the Soviets were behind these acts of international terrorism. Casey then asked how they explained these classified documents suggested that there was a link between the two. The CIA officer replied that they were not genuine. When Casey asked how they knew, the CIA officer replied “because the agency created them as part of a black operation against the Soviets”. Casey was so determined to believe the B Team, that he rejected the CIA report and told Reagan that the Soviets were behind the terrorist network.

Researchers have always stressed the political implications of the Neo Cons. This is a mistake. Their ideas are deeply influenced by economics. They are the driving force behind the Military Industrial Complex. The same group who funded the assassination of JFK.

The most important implication of this story for JFK researchers concerns the manufacture of false documents. The CIA have not only been involved in destroying important documents, they have created false ones. Therefore, when Oswald’s CIA file is eventually released, should we really trust what it says. The general opinion will be that as the CIA have spent so much energy making sure the file is not published, it must be true. However, for cynics like me, I believe the file was tampered with soon after the assassination. I expect the same is also true of Oswald’s FBI file.

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  • 2 weeks later...
I was just thinking over some things with the current situation in mind. in my opinion the assassination of JFK was very monitarily motivated among the people higher up in society and was more personal and political among other sections (Cubans, Howard Hunt), those people who gained from the assassintion made a lot of money and in my opinion are now in power but my question is, does the power now lie with the Neo-Cons in the white house  with the CIA as was the case in the 60s, have the big cats now bypassed the CIA as they have gotten what they want, power?

It is an interesting question about the relationship between the Neo-Cons, the CIA and the JFK assassination.

The link between the Neo-Cons and the CIA dates back to George H. W. Bush being appointed by Gerald Ford (a member of the Warren Commission) as head of the CIA. One of the first things that Bush did was to persuade Ford to establish a system where a team of “outside experts” would take an independent look at the highly classified data used by the intelligence community to assess Soviet strategic forces.

This became known as the B Team (I assume the CIA were the A Team). The chairman of B Team was Richard Pipes, professor of history at Harvard. Members of the B team included several of those prominent in the Neo-Cons movement today. This included Paul Nitze, Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle. The group also got support from Donald Rumsfeld (Secretary of Defense) and Dick Cheney (Ford's White House Chief of Staff).

The B Team came to the conclusion that the Soviet Union posed a far greater than the government realised. They argued that even though the intelligence community could not find hard evidence that the Soviets had a superior system of offensive weapons, this did not mean that they did not exist. All it meant was that they had discovered new ways of hiding this information.

The B Team also came to the conclusion that the Soviets were behind all terrorist groups throughout the world. Something they desribed as the "Terrorist Network". Although they could not prove it, they believed it. For them it was an act of faith (a bit like WMD in Iraq). However, they did find some evidence of this in CIA classified documents.

In 1981 William Casey became Director of the CIA. He was another Neo Con and worked very closely with the B Team. He demanded an immediate investigation into the claims made by the B Team that the Soviets were behind this “Terrorist Network”.

The CIA reported back that they could not find any evidence that the Soviets were behind these acts of international terrorism. Casey then asked how they explained these classified documents suggested that there was a link between the two. The CIA officer replied that they were not genuine. When Casey asked how they knew, the CIA officer replied “because the agency created them as part of a black operation against the Soviets”. Casey was so determined to believe the B Team, that he rejected the CIA report and told Reagan that the Soviets were behind the terrorist network.

Researchers have always stressed the political implications of the Neo Cons. This is a mistake. Their ideas are deeply influenced by economics. They are the driving force behind the Military Industrial Complex. The same group who funded the assassination of JFK.

The most important implication of this story for JFK researchers concerns the manufacture of false documents. The CIA have not only been involved in destroying important documents, they have created false ones. Therefore, when Oswald’s CIA file is eventually released, should we really trust what it says. The general opinion will be that as the CIA have spent so much energy making sure the file is not published, it must be true. However, for cynics like me, I believe the file was tampered with soon after the assassination. I expect the same is also true of Oswald’s FBI file.

John:

Brilliant summation of how the JFK assassination is totally tied to the events happening now. Why solving this case not only still matters, we will have no legitimate government so long as this lie continues. We need another Jim Garrison to bring a grand jury investigation while there are still some living conspirators.

Dawn

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  • 7 months later...

John said:

"The most important implication of this story for JFK researchers concerns the manufacture of false documents. The CIA have not only been involved in destroying important documents, they have created false ones. Therefore, when Oswald’s CIA file is eventually released, should we really trust what it says. The general opinion will be that as the CIA have spent so much energy making sure the file is not published, it must be true. However, for cynics like me, I believe the file was tampered with soon after the assassination. I expect the same is also true of Oswald’s FBI file."

This has always been a concern of mine also. How can we ever hope to untangle such a twisted ball of twine, when the records and documents being relied upon are themselves so questionable? It is like basing a life or death medical diagnosis on symptoms reported in the medical history of a hypochondriac

Common sense dictates that if you are attempting to cover up a criminal act, you do not retain evidence of same. The CIA, FBI, ONI, and NSA are all aware that researchers have attempted to link Oswald to their organizations in some way. I think it is probably wishful thinking to believe that records may eventually be found to prove this connection. .

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Perhaps I am misremembering, but I thought that years ago CIA director Robert Gates released what he claimed to be Oswald's CIA file. He made a big deal of it, though as I recall it amounted to nothing more than some newspaper clippings or what-not.

Gates said at the time of this file release that the CIA had nothing to do with the assassination, and as proof he told about how he cried when he heard about the assassination when he was a college student. He got kind of emotional as he talked about it. When he left the CIA he should have gone into acting.

Does anyone else remember this?

Ron

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I was just thinking over some things with the current situation in mind. in my opinion the assassination of JFK was very monitarily motivated among the people higher up in society and was more personal and political among other sections (Cubans, Howard Hunt), those people who gained from the assassintion made a lot of money and in my opinion are now in power but my question is, does the power now lie with the Neo-Cons in the white house  with the CIA as was the case in the 60s, have the big cats now bypassed the CIA as they have gotten what they want, power?

It is an interesting question about the relationship between the Neo-Cons, the CIA and the JFK assassination.

The link between the Neo-Cons and the CIA dates back to George H. W. Bush being appointed by Gerald Ford (a member of the Warren Commission) as head of the CIA. One of the first things that Bush did was to persuade Ford to establish a system where a team of “outside experts” would take an independent look at the highly classified data used by the intelligence community to assess Soviet strategic forces.

This became known as the B Team (I assume the CIA were the A Team). The chairman of B Team was Richard Pipes, professor of history at Harvard. Members of the B team included several of those prominent in the Neo-Cons movement today. This included Paul Nitze, Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle. The group also got support from Donald Rumsfeld (Secretary of Defense) and Dick Cheney (Ford's White House Chief of Staff).

The B Team came to the conclusion that the Soviet Union posed a far greater than the government realised. They argued that even though the intelligence community could not find hard evidence that the Soviets had a superior system of offensive weapons, this did not mean that they did not exist. All it meant was that they had discovered new ways of hiding this information.

The B Team also came to the conclusion that the Soviets were behind all terrorist groups throughout the world. Something they desribed as the "Terrorist Network". Although they could not prove it, they believed it. For them it was an act of faith (a bit like WMD in Iraq). However, they did find some evidence of this in CIA classified documents.

In 1981 William Casey became Director of the CIA. He was another Neo Con and worked very closely with the B Team. He demanded an immediate investigation into the claims made by the B Team that the Soviets were behind this “Terrorist Network”.

The CIA reported back that they could not find any evidence that the Soviets were behind these acts of international terrorism. Casey then asked how they explained these classified documents suggested that there was a link between the two. The CIA officer replied that they were not genuine. When Casey asked how they knew, the CIA officer replied “because the agency created them as part of a black operation against the Soviets”. Casey was so determined to believe the B Team, that he rejected the CIA report and told Reagan that the Soviets were behind the terrorist network.

Researchers have always stressed the political implications of the Neo Cons. This is a mistake. Their ideas are deeply influenced by economics. They are the driving force behind the Military Industrial Complex. The same group who funded the assassination of JFK.

The most important implication of this story for JFK researchers concerns the manufacture of false documents. The CIA have not only been involved in destroying important documents, they have created false ones. Therefore, when Oswald’s CIA file is eventually released, should we really trust what it says. The general opinion will be that as the CIA have spent so much energy making sure the file is not published, it must be true. However, for cynics like me, I believe the file was tampered with soon after the assassination. I expect the same is also true of Oswald’s FBI file.

John:

Brilliant summation of how the JFK assassination is totally tied to the events happening now. Why solving this case not only still matters, we will have no legitimate government so long as this lie continues. We need another Jim Garrison to bring a grand jury investigation while there are still some living conspirators.

Dawn

Dawn,

Good point, Dawn. I agree the chances of the case being suddenly solved after the release of a CIA document 40 odd years later are negligible, but another Jim Garrison wouldn't be able to do it, although it would be great to see somebody try. The Government and the media can smother an individual. It's got to be the US Government. They covered it up so they will have to untie their own knot. Obviously it won't be this Government, but hopefully a future one. The only other way would be for the media to reveal the true facts behind the assassination. If there ever a major falling out between these two parties, the facts may surface. This is hopeful speculation on my part as they seem to behave like they are one and the same. IMO, public pressure is the most effective way to force future Governments to act, because Governments are not ordinarily disposed to revealing dead cats in their closet, especially one's that stink as bad as this. Those great fault lines of power may yet shift. Optimistic.

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Perhaps I am misremembering, but I thought that years ago CIA director Robert Gates released what he claimed to be Oswald's CIA file. He made a big deal of it, though as I recall it amounted to nothing more than some newspaper clippings or what-not.

Gates said at the time of this file release that the CIA had nothing to do with the assassination, and as proof he told about how he cried when he heard about the assassination when he was a college student. He got kind of emotional as he talked about it. When he left the CIA he should have gone into acting.

Does anyone else remember this?

Ron

Yes Ron, I remember this episode very well. The crying part is what I

remember mostly, and the part where Gates said that he just can't believe

the polls show that so many Americans believe the CIA had something to do

with the assassination.

Bill

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John wrote:

In 1981 William Casey became Director of the CIA. He was another Neo Con and worked very closely with the B Team. He demanded an immediate investigation into the claims made by the B Team that the Soviets were behind this “Terrorist Network”.

The CIA reported back that they could not find any evidence that the Soviets were behind these acts of international terrorism. Casey then asked how they explained these classified documents suggested that there was a link between the two. The CIA officer replied that they were not genuine. When Casey asked how they knew, the CIA officer replied “because the agency created them as part of a black operation against the Soviets”. Casey was so determined to believe the B Team, that he rejected the CIA report and told Reagan that the Soviets were behind the terrorist network.

John, this is certainly interesting. Can you provide the source of the information please?

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John wrote:

Researchers have always stressed the political implications of the Neo Cons. This is a mistake. Their ideas are deeply influenced by economics. They are the driving force behind the Military Industrial Complex. The same group who funded the assassination of JFK.

Well John since I know Robert will not hold your "feet to the fire" as he does mine, will you acknowledge that the last sentence is simply your theory of the assassination for which you have no evidence whatsoever. If you do claim you have evidence that the MIC funded the assassination, please summarize your evidentiary points. Please give the names of who contributed to the assassination fund. Who was the paymaster? To whom were the funds given?

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Love it, Ron. I had the same question but would not have put it with your usual ewit!

James better have a photo of this dude! He did not tell us whether he was the payor or the payee. I suspect he believes he was a (the) paymaster?

James, to seriously "look at" him, we need a photo! (Preferably passing out the cash to one of the killers, of course). Thanks!

Edited by Tim Gratz
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Hey guys,

Helliwell being paymaster of course.

If I had an image of Helliwell laundering some of Trafficante's money and then handing a wad of it over to David Morales while John Roselli sits in the background toasting a future without JFK, trust me, I would post it. :D

I have had a few beers on this warm and sunny Gold Coast winter's day and the last thing I feel like doing is writing lots of stuff on Helliwell so Google this guy as there is plenty on him.

Cheers, (literally) :cheers

James

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