According to Weberman, GPH told LHO to take the MC to the TSBD

[Thomas Graves]

From “NoduleX23” by A.J. Weberman:

"Oswald brought the disassembled Manlicher-Carcano with him to the Texas School Book Depository on the morning of November 22, 1963, because he had been instructed to do so. Hemming had fired the weapon on the weekend before the assassination, and told Oswald that he liked it a lot and would purchase it for [sic] him on [sic] next Friday.

HEMMING:

Just offer him double the value of his gun. It wouldn't make anyone nervous. A crime like this hadn't occurred since McKinley, it wouldn't have been uppermost in his mind about the president or any other kind of bullxxxx.

Oswald entered the Texas School Book Depository carrying the package, and went up to the sixth floor.

He hid the package between some book cartons. Hemming had assured Oswald it was to be picked up.

Oswald was told to go to the lunchroom between 12:15 pm and 12:45 pm so he would not see the person who picked up the rifle.

HEMMING:

I would presume he was in the lunchroom. Maybe he was waiting to meet somebody there? Would these people anticipate pictures being taken? What if it was Oswald in the doorway of the Texas School Book Depository and not Lovelady?"

Comments anyone? Was A.J. Weberman telling the truth here or was he, perhaps, intentionally libeling Hemming, trying to get Hemming to sue him so that some assassination-related documents would be released (or so Weberman thought)?

--Tommy

Edited January 26, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Mark Knight]

Tommy, Hemming and Weberman had a strange relationship. Weberman made Hemming famous, in a manner, and Hemming said that a lot of what Weberman "quoted" Hemming as saying was "bullxxxx."

What we have to figure out is...whether it was Weberman BS'ing everyone, or whether it was Hemming BS'ing Weberman. But I find this passage to be believable...if the "curtain rod" story is believable. And I'm not so sure the curtain rod story holds up to scrutiny.

We can do a LOT of "If...then..." postulating on what this means. For example, if the "curtain rod" story is fiction, then this whole passage falls apart. If the curtain rod story is true, then Jack Dougherty's story that Oswald wasn't carrying anything into the TSBD that morning comes into question.

Or...IF they were putting down plywood on the 6th floor, THEN why would Hemming have Oswald hide the gun where it might be discovered "too soon" if the flooring crew was working faster than expected?

Lots of questions come to mind...for which the answers may remain elusive.

[Nathaniel Heidenheimer]

"Tommy, Hemming and Weberman had a strange relationship. Weberman made Hemming famous, in a manner, and Hemming said that a lot of what Weberman "quoted" Hemming as saying was "bullxxxx."

Mark are you sure you are not describing Noam Chomsky and his hate, hate, hate, love hate relationship with his distributor, the New York Times?" You know the humble publication, that called him the "world's most important living innerlechual" Some whips are highly selective and its called Grey Lady Symbiosis. Cut to Lou Rawls singing "Symbiosis is a Hurting Thing"

Yet such symbiotic relationships can be highly useful and fundable. See the barricades everywhere caused by Guru Noam's modesty?

Edited January 26, 2013 by Nathaniel Heidenheimer

[Thomas Graves]

"Tommy, Hemming and Weberman had a strange relationship. Weberman made Hemming famous, in a manner, and Hemming said that a lot of what Weberman "quoted" Hemming as saying was "bullxxxx."

Mark are you sure you are not describing Noam Chomsky and his hate, hate, hate, love hate relationship with his distributor, the New York Times?" You know the humble publication, that called him the "world's most important living innerlechual" Some whips are highly selective and its called Grey Lady Symbiosis. Cut to Lou Rawls singing "Symbiosis is a Hurting Thing"

Yet such symbiotic relationships can be highly useful and fundable. See the barricades everywhere caused by Guru Noam's modesty?

On the 50th anniversary, what are we doing even talking about Noam Chomsky and The New York Times?

WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT WHETHER IT WAS LOVELADY OR OSWALD IN THE DOORWAY!

Whew!

--Tommy

Edited January 26, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Mark Knight]

Nate, Chomsky was--and is--only an observer, from a distance. Hemming, if he could be taken at his sometimes contradictory word, was a lot closer to the action. My guess is that Hemming DID have SOME sort of firsthand knowledge of SOMETHING...whereas I'm pretty sure Chomsky didn't, and doesn't.

So Nate, I respectfully think you're building a straw-man here...since you introduced Chomsky into a discussion of Weberman and Hemming.

[Greg Burnham]

Gerry assured me that this is an inaccurate interpretation of the conversation he had with Weberman. He believed that many of the misquotes were deliberate (on Weberman's part) so as to

induce a lawsuit from Hemming that would result in subpoena power (of records and other evidence) and the like.

We had dozens of conversations regarding the Carcano alone. He said emphatically that the alleged weapon was a piece of xxxx. This was not a mild expression of distaste, rather it was an

all out loathing of the weapon. He claimed that the US military (probably the Marines) ordered and supplied over a thousand of these weapons to the anti-Castro Cubans who were training

at various bases, post Bay of Pigs, for a second attempt at invading Cuba. They were training with them at Lake Pontchartrain in Louisiana, as well. Hemming claimed that it was not to be

used as a "sniper rifle" per se because it lacked accuracy--even at relatively short distances.

When I asked him why the anti-Castro Cubans were being trained with it--if it was so inferior, he said: "They [anti Castro Cubans] weren't being supplied with better, more expensive, weapons

because there never was really going to be a second chance at Cuba anyway. It drove Dave [Ferrie] nuts to have that crap down there. They [CIA] were just going through the motions with

the rebels. How the hell do you think they could have contained that bunch of pissed off Cubans?--half of them left families in country [Cuba] when they escaped--some in Castro's jails. They

were f*cking pissed off. When the weapon of choice turned out to be that piece of crap gun, we all knew it was over [for a second invasion], but the rebels still bought into it."

[Mark Knight]

Greg, now THAT's a Hemming quote I can buy into.

Now, I've received a letter recently that speculates that the Mannlicher-Carcanos, and the purchase order from the US military for the WCC 6.5mm ammo may have been related to the attempt to create--and arm--an indigenous anti-Communist guerrilla force in North Korea prior to the armistice signed in July of 1953. Having the guerrilla force using such a weapon [of NON-US ancestry] would go far in covering the tracks of US involvement in the creation of such a unit [or units]; and of course these MC rifles had negligible resale value per unit...keeping the costs of such an "off-the-books" operation minimal, and much easier to to conceal in your average military budget. The only problem would be if any of the MC rifles procured for such purposes were to be involved in an operation that "came home to roost"...such as the JFK assassination.

Not saying that's actually what happened...but...might be an angle to consider.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Mark Knight

[Greg Burnham]

Mark,

As you are already probably aware, the FBI traced the actual casings allegedly retrieved from the 6th Floor "sniper's lair" back to a batch of 400,000 (Four Hundred Thousand) ordered by the USMC

in 1954 from the Western Cartridge Company of Chicago. FBI had been requested to find the provenance of the ammunition in the hope of "placing it in the hands of Oswald" and they concluded that

it was purchased for the CIA "by the Marine Corps for concealment" purposes. FBI deduced this because the Marine Corps, did not at the time--and never had they in the past--any weapons from which

that ammunition could have been fired. This dovetails nicely with Hemming's account of the use of weapons for which the ammunition would have been appropriate in training the rebels.

Since we know that Oswald was being framed, it makes perfect sense that in order to obstruct the investigation the evidence of the ammunition (casings) that was intended for CIA covert operational use

would be planted. It was not difficult to trace back to the source...and the source was teflon.

[Mark Knight]

Monk, I think you and I are on the same wavelength here...I believe the 6.5mm ammo from a USMC purchase order had the CIA and the military shouting "INCOMING!" and falling in 100% behind the coverup conspiracy... a reflexive CYA action.

Which, I believe, was the sole purpose of using [or simply planting, as the case may be] THAT weapon in THAT caliber with THAT ammo.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Mark Knight

[Greg Burnham]

Plan A: Fake an attempt on JFK in order to free him to attack Cuba, since an assassination attempt originating with Castro would relieve JFK of his obligation to the Soviets to never invade Cuba--blame it on the patsy, Castro sympathizer, Oswald--and make it look real good. Team A was deployed to that end.

Perpetrators (Team B ) infiltrated that plan and launched a real assassination plot using the machinations for cover that had already been manufactured to accommodate Plan A. The only trouble was that the Plan A cover story was airtight ONLY if JFK survived as planned. Because a traitorous element exploited a very dangerous psychological "Operations Northwoods" type propaganda campaign, JFK was killed and the cover story began to become far more dangerous than it had originally been intended. This did NOT suit the original objective of Plan A, the justification of a Cuban invasion...rather, if exposed it threatened to launch a nuclear exchange.

And they got away with it...almost. They didn't count on us.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Greg Burnham

[Thomas Graves]

Plan A: Fake an attempt on JFK in order to free him to attack Cuba, since an assassination attempt originating with Castro would relieve JFK of his obligation to the Soviets to never invade Cuba--blame it on the patsy, Castro sympathizer, Oswald--and make it look real good. Team A was deployed to that end.

Perpetrators (Team B ) infiltrated that plan and launched a real assassination plot using the machinations for cover that had already been manufactured to accommodate Plan A. The only trouble was that the Plan A cover story was airtight ONLY if JFK survived as planned. Because a traitorous element exploited a very dangerous psychological "Operations Northwoods" type propaganda campaign, JFK was killed and the cover story began to become far more dangerous than it had originally been intended. This did NOT suit the original objective of Plan A, the justification of a Cuban invasion...rather, if exposed it threatened to launch a nuclear exchange.

And they got away with it...almost. They didn't count on us.

Greg,

Sounds very plausible to me.

Three questions:

1. Was Kennedy witting of Plan A?

2. Was Oswald knowingly part of Plan A?

3. Was this told to you by Hemming?

Thanks,

--Tommy

Edited January 27, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Greg Burnham]

Actually, Tommy, I said it to Hemming. He said I was on the right track. I don't know if JFK was aware, but I highly doubt it. RFK--very possibly. LHO, yes.

[Thomas Graves]

Actually, Tommy, I said it to Hemming. He said I was on the right track. I don't know if JFK was aware, but I highly doubt it. RFK--very possibly. LHO, yes.

Greg,

Works for me.

Did Gerry give you any hints or clues after that to keep you heading in the right direction?

--Tommy

Edited January 28, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Greg Burnham]

Actually, Tommy, I said it to Hemming. He said I was on the right track. I don't know if JFK was aware, but I highly doubt it. RFK--very possibly. LHO, yes.

Greg,

Works for me.

Did Gerry give you any hints or clues after that to keep you heading in the right direction?

--Tommy

I'll call you tomorrow.

[Paul Brancato]

Where else did I read about plan A attempted but failed assassination and plan B infiltration of plan A resulting in a real killing?