Where did the shot come from that wounded James Tague?

[Robin Unger]

Dillard

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Edited April 10, 2013 by Robin Unger

[Steven Kossor]

Thanks for all of the help with understanding the "Tague wounding event." When I went to Dallas, I stood at the Western end of the cement square of the South Elm Street sewer cover, faced East and focused on the scar in the lower-right corner of the concrete cover. Then I followed the path of the scar straight up, and the top left corner of the Dallas Records Building came into view as the most probable site for the origin of that scar. Turning around 180 degrees, I noticed that the other end of the scar pointed at the position where Tague was standing (between Commerce and Main). That explanation for the origins of the sewer cover and curb scars makes the most sense to me; it has the benefit of more physical evidence that "lines up" than any of the other possible trajectories.

I'm still trying to figure out how the shot that pierced the limo windshield (as imaged in The Smoking Guns episode of The Men Who Killed Kennedy) and went on to strike Kennedy's throat could have been taken without Tague mentioning anything about it. Its origin had to be within a few feet of where he was standing when he was wounded and had to have occurred less than 10 seconds before he was wounded, for the windshield and throat holes to line up exactly as they do with that position when the limo was in the location that hid it behind the Stemmons Freeway sign in the Zfilm.

Food for thought.

Best wishes always,

Steve

[Bernice Moore]

Robin..do you have the crop , not those i posted within Dealey showingTague's left cheek..??.thanks...b

Edited April 10, 2013 by Bernice Moore

[Mike Williams]

Robin is correct, IF he was wounded it was on the right cheek.

Over the years and in differnet videos he points to different cheeks at different times.......

At any rate.

The vast majority of witnesses recount 3 shots, so where the idea comes from that more than 3 were fired is odd at best. I do realize some talk about silencers, etc etc, however this really just shows what a fundemental error they make in evaluating the ballistic evidence.

I have posted several times, the most likely occurance of Tague getting wounded was the 3rd shot, and from a fragment of that third shot striking the chorme, etc.

Even a very small fragment would retain the velocity needed.

[Ian Kingsbury]

Robin is correct, IF he was wounded it was on the right cheek.

Over the years and in differnet videos he points to different cheeks at different times.......

At any rate.

The vast majority of witnesses recount 3 shots, so where the idea comes from that more than 3 were fired is odd at best. I do realize some talk about silencers, etc etc, however this really just shows what a fundemental error they make in evaluating the ballistic evidence.

I have posted several times, the most likely occurance of Tague getting wounded was the 3rd shot, and from a fragment of that third shot striking the chorme, etc.

Even a very small fragment would retain the velocity needed.

No mas! Not enough mass = not enough energy to do the damage

Kerb concrete has higher compressive strength and is more compact

Than shuttered concrete . If the upper split after hitting the chrome how did it

Elevate itself over the windscreen frame. If a fragment hit the chrome it's even less

Likely an even smaller piece could carry enough energy to actually damage the kerb.

Kerb and pedestrian concrete /slabs are more impact/ damage resistant as

Indicated by the drain cover. Finer more compact grains of the right size to interlock the Portland

Cement a bit like a fractal mass.

[Karl Kinaski]

[Mike Williams]

Robin is correct, IF he was wounded it was on the right cheek.

Over the years and in differnet videos he points to different cheeks at different times.......

At any rate.

The vast majority of witnesses recount 3 shots, so where the idea comes from that more than 3 were fired is odd at best. I do realize some talk about silencers, etc etc, however this really just shows what a fundemental error they make in evaluating the ballistic evidence.

I have posted several times, the most likely occurance of Tague getting wounded was the 3rd shot, and from a fragment of that third shot striking the chorme, etc.

Even a very small fragment would retain the velocity needed.

No mas! Not enough mass = not enough energy to do the damage

Kerb concrete has higher compressive strength and is more compact

Than shuttered concrete . If the upper split after hitting the chrome how did it

Elevate itself over the windscreen frame. If a fragment hit the chrome it's even less

Likely an even smaller piece could carry enough energy to actually damage the kerb.

Kerb and pedestrian concrete /slabs are more impact/ damage resistant as

Indicated by the drain cover. Finer more compact grains of the right size to interlock the Portland

Cement a bit like a fractal mass.

Then simply do the math and prove your case. Ive done it already and there is plenty of mass allowable and plenty of remining velocity.

Lets not go with what we think, lets do the work and prove the point.

[Mike Williams]

Only a few slight issues with that.

First there was no hole in the windshield, there was nothing but a chip, from the inside, with lead on it.

Now this lead should give us a clue about other things.

For those that think this was a direct hit of a missed bullet, you would have to explain what kind of firearm did this!

There is a very good reason that bullets have a copper jacket,

This chip had no copper, just lead.

The bullet hit something else first.

[Ian Kingsbury]

Robin is correct, IF he was wounded it was on the right cheek.

Over the years and in differnet videos he points to different cheeks at different times.......

At any rate.

The vast majority of witnesses recount 3 shots, so where the idea comes from that more than 3 were fired is odd at best. I do realize some talk about silencers, etc etc, however this really just shows what a fundemental error they make in evaluating the ballistic evidence.

I have posted several times, the most likely occurance of Tague getting wounded was the 3rd shot, and from a fragment of that third shot striking the chorme, etc.

Even a very small fragment would retain the velocity needed.

No mas! Not enough mass = not enough energy to do the damage

Kerb concrete has higher compressive strength and is more compact

Than shuttered concrete . If the upper split after hitting the chrome how did it

Elevate itself over the windscreen frame. If a fragment hit the chrome it's even less

Likely an even smaller piece could carry enough energy to actually damage the kerb.

Kerb and pedestrian concrete /slabs are more impact/ damage resistant as

Indicated by the drain cover. Finer more compact grains of the right size to interlock the Portland

Cement a bit like a fractal mass.

Then simply do the math and prove your case. Ive done it already and there is plenty of mass allowable and plenty of remining velocity.

Lets not go with what we think, lets do the work and prove the point.

show us what you have and how the fragment gets over the chrome?.

[Steve Kober]

Something to consider, if as Tom Wilson had proposed that the location of z-frame 313 is actually 7 ft 6 in closer to the triple overpass were true, then the Dal-tex shot that nicked the curb was not a "wide, poor shot" but a shot that must have narrowly missed JFK's head and accounts for the curb/Tague chip. In addition, a 7 ft 6 in change to Z-313 location would allow for the head shot to have originated from the storm drain located at the base of the steps. I think Tom Wilson got it right and allowing for frames removed from the Z original can explain both the Tague hit and the upward projection of the fatal head shot. Any thoughts on this?

[Thomas H. Purvis]

The physical location of the purported "curb strike" is fully marked on the Survey Plat that Robert H. West made for the Warren Commission.

However!

This location can not be determined by looking at the WC's purported West Survey Plat, since what you see within the WC documents differs in a couple of ways from the actual survey plat that Mr. West provided to me.

[Karl Kinaski]

[Steve Kober]

Karl,

In my opinion, The Dal-Tex shooting team is located on the second floor. What would your line of sight drawing look like if you used the 2nd floor nest as the Tague/pavement point of origin. Please consider my post above that moves the limo 7 ft 6 in farther down Elm Street. How does that trace out on your photograph? I also feel that this is the second , maybe third shot taken from that window.

[Karl Kinaski]

I am sure, there was a Dal-Tex Team and the man on the fireladder of that building was a spotter. Now, if the shooter was on the second, or third floor, i don't know. There was, after the shooting, at last one arrest of a "Dal-Tex man", wearing dark leather-gloves, and escorted by police, while some bystanders where booing at him. (Garrison.) He disappeared forever.

The Dal-Tex Team generally had more luck, than the picked-fence team. It disappeared almost without leaving a trace in history.

My scenario would be:

If the shot in question fired from the Dal-Tex caused the hole in the windshield, it was a shot reaching the Limo, when Kennedy and Connally were already shot and down at their seats, so that the bullet found no target...but Tague, after passing the windshield. Maybe this shot is in connection with Greer and Kellerman ducking their heads ( which can be seen on the Zappi film) shortly after Kennedys fatal head shot. In other words: the Dal-Tex shot would have been a head shot(from behind), if Kennedy would not have been already shot in the temple.(from the front). His head was the main target - from different directions.