An interesting factoid about the refutation of a 2nd Gunman

[Robert Howard]

Although the fact that the HSCA Acoustic Study of the Dictabelt recording and its analysis of a "probability" of a 2nd Gunman, was attacked and "refuted," depending on ones ability to understand

how politics can also be immersed into the arena of science, there is one aspect of the whole conundrum that, I personally have never seen addressed. In retrospect, if one looks at the circumstances of the HSCA accoustics test, and the subsequent audio experts and laypeople, such as

rock drummer Steve Barber and the Gallery magazine flexidisk which became part of the story,

one might say, if the event had taken place in a courtroom, and there had been a verdict, it would have

been a mistrial. Suffice to say, the issue of Oswald as lone gunman, and whether there was a second gunman was the prize that awaited whoever prevailed, and consensus of that issue, at least as far as

the American public were concerned, I believe it would not be inaccurate to say, that the "fact that there was a second gunman," was not definitively resolved in favor of the probability of a second gunman. As in other areas of the assassination legacy, the determination invariably falls upon which side you tend to believe.

Although this is not hardly a determining factor, to say it would be worth pointing out, would, in my mind be a no-brainer, the issue of the carillon bell, or, the lack of one in the vicinity of Dealey Plaza

was definitely an issue that was not on the side of those who saw the basic fact that Decker's voice

and his comments had to have been from the events of November 22, 1963, irrespective of whether

the dictabelt was from McLain's motorcycle or another source, and hence, its validity.

My point has to do with, what I believe, were some built in hedging in the phrasing to the HSCA Accoustic Report itself, which confronted with later events, such as the counterattack mounted

by members of the scientific community, which seemed "agenda-driven," as much as "seeking

the truth."

Having said all of this, one portion of the HSCA Audio Analysis of the Dictabelt states:

6.1 Bell

The toll of a bell can be heard faintly at about 152.5 sec. It was hoped

that the location of the bell, and therefore of the radio transmitter could be

obtained by acoustically identifying the bell....Careful investigation

by the committee staff did not discover any such bell within earshot of Dealey Plaza

During the acoustical reconstruction tests in Dealey Plaza locomotive bells were recorded

and subsequently analyzed These sounds bore no similarity to the carillon-like sounds of the

original recording We concluded that the bell sound on the Channel 1 tape recording

must contain sounds from at least one transmitter not in Dealey Plaza at a time near 152.5 sec.

HSCA Report, Volume VIII

Current Section: 6. Additional Relevant Sounds on the DPD Channel 1 Tape

https://www.maryferr...absPageId=79098

Robert: The phrase "Careful investigation by the committee staff did not discover any such bell

within earshot of Dealey Plaza," seems to be ambiguous as to whether the investigation was simply

investigating whether there was a bell within earshot of Dealey Plaza at the time the recreation was being performed, circa 1979, or, if the investigation explored whether there was any attempt to discover if there was a bell tower in 1963.

Moving on, I attempted to ascertain if there was a bell tower of a church or a office building near downtown Dallas in 1963, and discovered, that by George, the answer was far from negative.

I would also preface my comments by saying that theoretically the HSCA did not say that

if the sounding bell was not a carillon bell, then the tape was irrelevant. It stated:

The toll of a bell can be heard faintly at about 152.5 sec. It was hoped that the location of the bell, and therefore of the radio transmitter could be obtained by acoustically identifying the bell. The energy spectrum of the 1/3 sec segment containing the bell sound is shown in Fig 2.3.

Several peaks evident in the spectrum are harmonically related. The fundamental frequency of this series of spectral peaks is 210 Hz. The spectral peaks are marked according to the normal nomenclature used to describe overtones of a carillon bell. The fundamental tone is called the

hum note. The second harmonic, called the strike note, is at the nominal pitch of the bell, in this case

420 Hz. The third harmonic is a fifth above the strike note. Higher harmonics are strong at 1050 Hz

and 1470 Hz. The minor third above the strike note is strong, this fact is characteristic of carillon bells.

https://www.maryferr...1&relPageId=114

Robert: So having gone through this laborious process, we turn toward information regarding bell sounds near Dealey Plaza.

The July 4, 1963 issue of the Dallas Morning News contained an article entitled.

Parades, Bells, Picnics: Its Grand Old Fourth, which contained the following excerpt:

...following the downtown parade Atty. Gen Waggoner Carr will

speak on “Freedom In Our Time” at the American Independence Day Rally

at the Dallas Memorial Auditorium Theater. Carr will be introduced by

Robert I. Thornton, Sr., former mayor of Dallas. Mayor Earle Cabell

will present an Americanism award at the rally. At noon the Mercantile

National Bank will join with several churches in ringing bells in support

of the national “Let Freedom Ring” campaign.

Would the address 1700 Main Street, which is where the Mercantile National Bank was located in 1963, be within earshot of Dealey Plaza?

I suggest anyone interested in this avenue go to google maps find out for themselves. The obvious fact the article is from almost a full five months before November 22, 1963, based on the law of probability is in, at least my mind, favorable that is was more likely functioning than it was not functioning, that day.

The fact, or the determination of whether the Mercantile National Bank housed a carillon bell, does not appear, at first glance to be likely, but neither is is a known fact it wasn't. Pardon my saying so,

but I would not assume that if it wasn't a carillon bell that the bell at 1700 Main Street is irrelevant to the story.

Other sources of information

DEALEY PLAZA ECHO ANALYSIS - ACOUSTICAL FORENSICS

http://www.jfkassass...ic=4657.55;wap2

SMU's Fondren Building does contain a carillon bell, but it definitely does not appear to be a candidate for being "within earshot of Dealey Plaza."

See

http://smu.edu/regis...illon_bells.asp

Parades, Bells, Picnics: Its Grand Old Fourth

pl_004142013_0822_25073_737.pdf

Edited April 14, 2013 by Robert Howard

[Robert Howard]

I have also discovered that the Red County Court Building had a bell that was in use in 1963 and that this information is contained in an old issue of the Continuing Inquiry, but I am not aware of which issue or the name of the article it is.

[John Dolva]

I have a couple of questions here. I find it interesting you call it Red County Court Building. Do you mean Big Red. That's got some towers It's probably one of the most 'mysterious' buildings lining the plaza. Also is the bell ring timestamped and where is it in relation to the shots?

[Cliff Varnell]

Although the fact that the HSCA Acoustic Study of the Dictabelt recording and its analysis of a "probability" of a 2nd Gunman, was attacked and "refuted," depending on ones ability to understand

how politics can also be immersed into the arena of science, there is one aspect of the whole conundrum that, I personally have never seen addressed. In retrospect, if one looks at the circumstances of the HSCA accoustics test, and the subsequent audio experts and laypeople, such as

rock drummer Steve Barber and the Gallery magazine flexidisk which became part of the story,

one might say, if the event had taken place in a courtroom, and there had been a verdict, it would have

been a mistrial.

No lawyer would argue the fact of conspiracy on the basis of the acoustics evidence. JFK's back wound at T3 and front entrance throat wound establish two+ shooters as definitive fact. The evidence for the back wound is, in the words of Vincent Salandria, "blatantly obvious."

The acoustics evidence is a scam -- a scam by the government that put it into evidence and a scam by the JFK Assassination Porn Industry which feeds off of such irrelevancies.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Cliff Varnell

[Robert Howard]

I had no doubt that at some point, since it involves to a great degree the "official version" of events in Dealey Plaza, that somewhere this other bell near "Old Red," had been discussed at length. I was right

See

http://www.jfkassass...pic=4847.0;wap2

The subject was also broached in an old google groups thread, where persons quoting a Gary Mack response regarding the Fox News program, where Gary stated that on the one year anniversary of the assassination [1964] a bell could be heard during a commemoration ceremony, Steve Barber [i am not certain this is the rock drummer referenced in an earlier post, but I would think

it was. At any rate, Barber jumped all over that thread saying GM knew this wasn't true, citing an IBM analysis, which apparently stated there was no possibility the sound was a bell; [personally considering IBM, I cannot consider them to be honest about anything relating to the assassination in any way; [another topic] Ostensibly the bell was not on top of "Old Red," per se, but was near the South-East corner of Old Red removed circa 1969. So, that is my understanding of it personally I still think the Mercantile Building Bell, should not get sidetracked on this thread. Although everyone is entitled to their own viewpoint. I apologize if my account of the information, cited is inaccurate. The IBM Report was listed on the google groups post as an old AOL, post, I clicked on it, and it went to a AOL Login, which I declined to attempt. AOL in general, has been a real Pain In The A....in my experiences, so someone more daring will have to attempt that. Apologies

Edited April 15, 2013 by Robert Howard

[John Dolva]

Hmmm. If a bell was ringing 12.30 (if that's what it did), roughly how far away would it have to be in order for the sound to be recorded at the time it did when it did?

[Thomas Graves]

Hmmm. If a bell was ringing 12.30 (if that's what it did), roughly how far away would it have to be in order for the sound to be recorded at the time it did when it did?

John,

I'm guessing half a mile?

--Tommy

Edited April 18, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[John Dolva]

That's less than three seconds at STP. ?