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112 Military Intelligence


Steve Thomas
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Steve, I will try to get it off this afternoon - I will only be faxing you

the personnel for Region II which included Dallas. There were a lot of

other Regions and that get pretty extensive. In addition there was the

316th but it's personnel in 1963 were largely virtual since it was

moved into Texas with no personnel and during its start up period its

staff were 112th HQ staff who wore two hats...including its Commander

William Reich.

112th HQ at San Antonio was commanded by Williard Mize, with

William Greer as its Ops officer (contrary to Jones claim that he was

Ops officer), Jones as G2 intel.

Region II (Dallas) was commanded by Roy Pate with his

Deputy commander as Edgar Boyd....it was one of those two who should

have been called to testify on the 112th in Dallas, not Jones.

-- Larry

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  • 14 years later...
2 hours ago, Bart Kamp said:

Don Stringfellow rang in about a guy called Harvey and later on Lee Harvey Oswald

image.thumb.png.80b4103c423e9e2032f5c6480d5839f3.png

Bart,

 

See her for a Forum thread about Stephan Weiss:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/25187-stephan-weiss-the-112th-mi-group/

Larry Hancock asked, " Has Malcolm verified that he really was a Lt. in the 112th and if so where was he stationed?"

I don't think he got an answer.

 

There have been references on several threads about a cable sent on the evening of 11/22 from Fort Sam Houston to Strike Command, McDill AFB in Florida. In the cable, reference was made, to information obtained by Detective Don Stringfellow of the Dallas Police Department. I managed to locate a copy of the cable, which you can find here:

https://archive.org/details/nsia-ArmyIntelligenceJFK

I think this is in the Weisberg collection.


L.D. Stringfellow was a Detective in the Dallas Police Department's Special Service Bureau of which Revill was a Lieutenant.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Batchelor_Ex_5002.pdf

 

Note the reference in this military intelligence file's cable to Harvey Lee Oswald

 

Steve Thomas

 

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I did not know about this Steve, so I have emailed him and when I get an answer from him then I will post.

Looking into the other stuff this weekend.

Cheers,

B

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5 hours ago, Bart Kamp said:

Don Stringfellow rang in about a guy called Harvey and later on Lee Harvey Oswald

image.thumb.png.ed6d900ee68b1badf0ba1efe5dfcf7d2.png

 

 

Bart,

 

It appears to me that it wasn't a case of being ordered to "stand down", it was Sorrells of the Secret Service who told military intelligence that they weren't needed.

 

http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/ARRB/JMASIH/WP-DOCS/TIM/112DALLA.WPD.PDF

 

MEMORANDUM

(Updated version as of February 21, 1997)

To:

Jeremy Gunn

cc:

David Marwell; Chris Barger; Doug Horne; Brian Rosen; Joan Zimmerman

From:

Tim Wray

Subject:

Army Intelligence in Dallas

Here’ s some of what we’ve learned so far about Army intelligence in Dallas.

Coyle recollected that Lieutenant Colonel Roy Pate, commander of the 112th’s Dallas Regional Office, attended monthly meetings with the heads of the various local law enforcement and military intelligence agencies within the Dallas community, and that upon his return from such meetings would commonly assemble the office’s personnel to pass on to them any important information he had picked up. Coyle recalled that, prior to the assassination, Pate (Coyle was not absolutely certain that it was Pate on this occasion, though he thought so) came back from such a meeting and advised them that security measures for the upcoming presidential visit had been discussed, but that the Secret Service and the Dallas Police Department said that they had everything under control and needed no additional help from other agencies. Coyle thought that Pate expressed some surprise at this, but thought there was nothing unusual or sinister about it.”

 

http://brinvest.ch/2017/11/a-look-at-new-jfk-documents-and-new-thoughts-on-fletcher-prouty-on-the-ochelli-effect-mike-swanson-10312017/

 

Subject: Interview with William McKinney (Colonel)
Body: CALL REPORT: PUBLIC Document’s Author: Christopher Barger/ARRB Date Created: 05/02/97

 

"However, he (McKinney) said that when he reported to the 316th in January 1964, he found that “there were still people who were upset…angry…or just unhappy, that the 112th… had been told that perimeter security wasn’t needed by them.” (Col. McKinney wasn't in Dallas, or even in Texas in November, 1963.)

 

Steve Thomas

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Steve,

 

that is correct. The term 'stand down' is a lil heavy.

 

Drain wrote about that their input was not needed as well.

 

doc104.jpg

Edited by Bart Kamp
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1 hour ago, Bart Kamp said:

Steve,

 

that is correct. The term 'stand down' is a lil heavy.

 

Drain wrote about that their input was not needed as well.

 

Bart,

In the 1950's and 60's, "Red Squads" or "Special Services Bureaus" were formed in many of the major cities in the U.S. (I think the idea started in New York City, but I wouldn't swear to that). One of their duties was to provide extra protection for visiting dignitaries.

In 1963, Captain Gannaway was the Head of Dallas' Special Service Bureau.

Here's a memo from Lieutenant Kaminsky to Gannaway outlining how he was going to provide Special Service Bureau protection along the motorcade route.

Notice how he was only going to provide one man per block. Not much protection in my mind.

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth190029/m1/1/

 

Captain Perdue Lawrence testified before the Warren Commission on July 24, 1964. He was the Captain of the DPD' Traffic Division's Accident Prevention Bureau. He was being questioned about the security measures for JFK's visit. W.P. “Pat” Gannaway was the Captain of the Special Service Bureau. During his testimony, he stressed several times that his role was to keep the motorcade flowing. Actual security being provided against threats to the President would be coming from someone else.

 

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/lawrence.htm

 

Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you receive another set of instructions or orders after that?
Captain LAWRENCE. Yes; on the evening of November 21, this was the first time that I had attended any security meeting at all in regards to this motorcade. At approximately 5 p.m. I was told to report to the conference room on the third floor, and when I arrived at the conference room the deputy chiefs were in there, there were members of the Secret Service--Mr. Sorrels, Captain Gannaway, Captain Souter of radio patrol, and Capt. Glen King, deputy chiefs, assistant chiefs, and Chief Curry, and one gentleman, who I assume was in charge of the security for the Secret Service.

 

Mr. GRIFFIN. Was anything said in that meeting about any special precautions that should be taken in connection with protecting the President?
Captain LAWRENCE. Yes; there was some discussion that centered more around the security down at the Trade Mart than any other place and Captain Gannaway was in charge of the security in that area, and then Chief Stevenson, I believe, was there, and they mentioned that they would have detectives stationed along the route--along the motorcade route, especially in the downtown area.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And what were they to be looking for?
Captain LAWRENCE. They were taking care of security, all right, but they did not go into any discussion in my presence. I assume that this had all been, discussed earlier, in fact, when I was called up there, these people were already meeting.

 

“I assume that some instructions have been given to some members of the CID, the criminal investigation division, and to the men from the special service bureau, and the men specifically assigned to security duties instead of traffic duties. It would be my assumption that this was a part of the assignments given.”

 

So, Sorrell's told the group that the Secret Service and Dallas PD would take care of everything; and that the SS didn't need any help from the FBI, ONI, OSI, the 112th, or anybody else.

 

Steve Thomas

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On 11/10/2018 at 3:32 PM, Bart Kamp said:

Steve,

that is correct. The term 'stand down' is a lil heavy.

Drain wrote about that their input was not needed as well.

 

 

Bart,

 

There was a big meeting on the 21st that involved a lot of the heavies - SS, FBI, MI, DPD Department heads and Deputy Chiefs, etc.

They went over the security arrangements.

Somebody from the SS told the others that their help wouldn't be needed.

I've been trying to determine whether that was Forrest Sorrels or Winston Lawson.

I've about decided it was Sorrels.

Now, I don't know whether that was hubris or something more sinister.

 

http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/ARRB/JMASIH/WP-DOCS/TIM/112DALLA.WPD.PDF

 

MEMORANDUM

(Updated version as of February 21, 1997)

To: Jeremy Gunn

cc: David Marwell; Chris Barger; Doug Horne; Brian Rosen; Joan Zimmerman

From: Tim Wray

Subject: Army Intelligence in Dallas

Here’ s some of what we’ve learned so far about Army intelligence in Dallas.

 

Coyle recalled that, prior to the assassination, Pate (Coyle was not absolutely certain that it was Pate on this occasion, though he thought so) came back from such a meeting and advised them that security measures for the upcoming presidential visit had been discussed, but that the Secret Service and the Dallas Police Department said that they had everything under control and needed no additional help from other agencies.

image.thumb.png.3166f0d1320c59d4ee55d7457803e174.png

image.thumb.png.d93cd9c72ba9f4fb387ff1c4019aabeb.png

image.png.e29c96bf9be9e6553a39beb09573a957.png

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WC testimony of Jesse Curry

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/curry1.htm

Mr. CURRY - Yes, sir. Also we had planned to have Captain Fritz and some of his homicide detectives immediately following the President's car which we have in the past, we have always done this.
Mr. RANKIN - Now, would that be between the President's car and the Secret Service?
Mr. CURRY - And the Secret Service. We have in past done this. We have been immediately behind the President's car.
Mr. RANKIN - Did you propose that to someone?
Mr. CURRY - Yes, sir.
Mr. RANKIN - Who did you propose it to?
Mr. CURRY - To Mr. Lawson and Mr. Sellers. (I'm pretty sure this should be Sorrels)
Mr. RANKIN - What did they say about that?
Mr. CURRY - They didn't want it.
Mr. RANKIN - Did they tell you why?
Mr. CURRY - They said the Secret Service would be there.

 

WC testimony of Forrest Sorrels

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/sorrels1.htm

 

Mr. STERN - You felt, then, that the local police forces would supply all the outside assistance you needed for this visit?
Mr. SORRELS - Yes, sir; the Dallas Police Department, in my opinion, has some very good leaders, career men who have been there for many years, and due to the fact I have been located in Dallas for many, many years I know these people personally, and I have never yet called upon the Dallas Police Department, the Sheriff's Office, or the Department of Public Safety, for any assistance that we have not gotten and gotten cheerfully and willingly.

 

Steve Thomas

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On 11/10/2018 at 7:08 PM, Steve Thomas said:

 

There have been references on several threads about a cable sent on the evening of 11/22 from Fort Sam Houston to Strike Command, McDill AFB in Florida. In the cable, reference was made, to information obtained by Detective Don Stringfellow of the Dallas Police Department. I managed to locate a copy of the cable, which you can find here:

https://archive.org/details/nsia-ArmyIntelligenceJFK

I think this is in the Weisberg collection.

Where was the 4th army group located and what area would they cover? Dallas

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The info obtained from Stringfellow is downright wrong, he had defected not to Cuba and also is not a card carrying member of the CP

Actually the paragraph below corrects this, but that info is not from Stringfellow.

Edited by Bart Kamp
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2 hours ago, Bart Kamp said:

Where was the 4th army group located and what area would they cover? Dallas

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The info obtained from Stringfellow is downright wrong, he had defected not to Cuba and also is not a card carrying member of the CP

Actually the paragraph below corrects this, but that info is not from Stringfellow.

Bart,

 

The 4th Army was based out of San Antonio and covered five states, I think. (either five or seven). I know Louisiana was also part of their district, which is why Jones had a record of LHO and his activities in New Orleans.

Did you catch the reference to Harvey Lee Oswald in that Stringfellow memo, standing 5'10" and weighing 165lbs with blue eyes?

Gee, how coincidental that that matches the description of the Tippit suspect that Gerald Hill testified to.

*grin*

 

Steve Thomas

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