Craig Lamson Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 (edited) Then post the original frames... 341 and 350 Simple. Right now all we have are these, and the IS area is missing in all of them since the COPY FRAMES are used to fill in the missing frames: Post the intact 341 and 350 and prove yourself correct. its YOUR claim davie jo, YOUR burden of proof. How ct like. You throw a pile-o-crap against the wall and expect someone else to actually do the work. Nope. Not this time. So you base your ENTIRE argument on the splice based on the Costella edit? Really? And that's all "we" have? Really? Really? Man reality sure is impossible for you to grasp. But hey, shows us your chops. Your claim, your burden of proof. Prove to us the Costella edit, "all we have" , ( roflmao) is correct. You staked your reputation on this davie jo. Lets get a really good look at your skills. Edited May 15, 2013 by Craig Lamson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 No I do not base the conclusion on Costella Show us ANY FILM or ANY COLLECTION of frames that shows 341 and 350 intact, complete with IS area. The frames in the WCR go from 171-334 with the 208/212 spliced together frame... Since YOU surely have copies of every frame from the original... prove me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 (edited) No I do not base the conclusion on Costella Oh daive jo, even when your words are right here for everyone to see you STILL can't tell the truth... Your words from above which you posted ALONG WITH THE COSTELLA FRAMES davie jo sez: "Right now all we have are these, and the IS area is missing in all of them since the COPY FRAMES are used to fill in the missing frames:" Now what else can you base your conclusions on since your tell us the COSTELLA FRAMES ,which you posted, are "ALL WE HAVE" ROFLMAO! Show us ANY FILM or ANY COLLECTION of frames that shows 341 and 350 intact, complete with IS area. The frames in the WCR go from 171-334 with the 208/212 spliced together frame... No, that would be YOUR job, since the claim is yours. Show us all of the copies of the archival copy of the Zapruder film you have check, and show us they are ALL missing the IS on 341 and 350. How simple could this be? Surely give "sterling" reputation as a researcher, you have checked and rechecked before making this claim about splices at 340 and 349. You DID look at something other tham Costella...Right? Since YOU surely have copies of every frame from the original... prove me wrong. What I have or do not have is not the issue here. Its the correctness of your claim and research. So show us davie jo? Did you even ask Zavada? Opps not sure your calling him the l word is gonna help .... So davie, time to pony up the depth of your research on this important matter. Your reputation is riding on it. Show us what you have. Edited May 15, 2013 by Craig Lamson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Well then... looks like I was wrong about those two frames... MPI did not make copies of 341 or 350 (486 as well I come to learn) and there does not seem to be copies of those two frames in general circulation... they would only be available at the archives or if you ordered that $$$ set of images. Mr. LIEBELER - You also testified that you were standing perhaps no more than 15 feet away when the President was hit in the head and that you are absolutely certain that there were no shots fired after the President was hit in the head?Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir; that's correct. At z340 Altgens moves into frame and is about 15 feet from JFK at z350.... A headshot occurs at station 4+95 or 30 feet past z313 which is at station 4+65. Other than that I do not know of any significance to those frames.... It would seem to me that if those two frames existed in their full glory... we'd have seen them by now and they would be incorporated into the available versions of the zframe movies. That the other two "breaks" occur at a time when shots were fired is, of course, no coincidence at all... DJ Mistakes happen... you learn and move on. You, on the other hand, will always be a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 (edited) Well then... looks like I was wrong about those two frames... MPI did not make copies of 341 or 350 (486 as well I come to learn) and there does not seem to be copies of those two frames in general circulation... they would only be available at the archives or if you ordered that $$$ set of images. Mr. LIEBELER - You also testified that you were standing perhaps no more than 15 feet away when the President was hit in the head and that you are absolutely certain that there were no shots fired after the President was hit in the head? Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir; that's correct. One more very big problem for you davie jo. You love to quote Altgens, yet Altgens tells us about the wounds he sees to JFK's head...AFTER the headshot...but if the head shot occurs where you just said it did..Altgens can't SEE the damage to the side of JFK's head. IT IS HIDDEN FROM HIS VIEW. He can only see the damage he describes if the shot occurs up around the 313 area... OPPS... NOTICE!! For research and study ONLY – NOT FOR PUBLICATION! Zapruder Film: Copyright 1967 (renewed 1995) The Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza. All rights reserved. Edited May 16, 2013 by Craig Lamson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 (edited) Well then... looks like I was wrong about those two frames... MPI did not make copies of 341 or 350 (486 as well I come to learn) and there does not seem to be copies of those two frames in general circulation... they would only be available at the archives or if you ordered that $$$ set of images. Mr. LIEBELER - You also testified that you were standing perhaps no more than 15 feet away when the President was hit in the head and that you are absolutely certain that there were no shots fired after the President was hit in the head? Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir; that's correct. At z340 Altgens moves into frame and is about 15 feet from JFK at z350.... A headshot occurs at station 4+95 or 30 feet past z313 which is at station 4+65. Other than that I do not know of any significance to those frames.... It would seem to me that if those two frames existed in their full glory... we'd have seen them by now and they would be incorporated into the available versions of the zframe movies. That the other two "breaks" occur at a time when shots were fired is, of course, no coincidence at all... DJ Mistakes happen... you learn and move on. You, on the other hand, will always be a Why didn't Altgens take any photos at this point? Too busy focusing his camera? Advancing the film? In a state of shock? Just watching the action through the view finder? All of the above? --Tommy Edited May 16, 2013 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Well then... looks like I was wrong about those two frames... MPI did not make copies of 341 or 350 (486 as well I come to learn) and there does not seem to be copies of those two frames in general circulation... they would only be available at the archives or if you ordered that $$$ set of images. Mr. LIEBELER - You also testified that you were standing perhaps no more than 15 feet away when the President was hit in the head and that you are absolutely certain that there were no shots fired after the President was hit in the head? Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir; that's correct. At z340 Altgens moves into frame and is about 15 feet from JFK at z350.... A headshot occurs at station 4+95 or 30 feet past z313 which is at station 4+65. Other than that I do not know of any significance to those frames.... It would seem to me that if those two frames existed in their full glory... we'd have seen them by now and they would be incorporated into the available versions of the zframe movies. That the other two "breaks" occur at a time when shots were fired is, of course, no coincidence at all... DJ Mistakes happen... you learn and move on. You, on the other hand, will always be a Why didn't Altgens take any photos at this point? Too busy focusing his camera? Advancing the film? In a state of shock? Just watching the action through the view finder? All of the above? --Tommy He never gets the camera to his eye... He says he was frozen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 From the FBI report written after the interview with Charles F. Brehm, close eyewitness to the assassination. Strangely, Mr. Brehm was never called to testify before the Warren Commission. "BREHM expressed his opinion that between the first and third shots, the President's car only seemed to move 10 or 12 feet. It seemed to him that the automobile almost came to a halt after the first shot, but of this he is not certain. After the third shot, the car in which the President was riding increased its speed and went under the freeway overpass and out of his sight." It must be remembered that this was an FBI report and not a statement. Not only did Mr. Brehm not sign this report, it is likely he never read it either. The words "but of this he is not certain" could have been added at any time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 He can only see the damage he describes if the shot occurs up around the 313 area... OPPS... WTF is "OPPS" old man... so excited to make a point you simply can't concentrate? Maybe if you ran off and took a p-iss first...you know, BEFORE you get all worked up... old men and their bladders ... That you posess knowledge and wait around to bait others is pathetic... the much needed jollies of a hasbeen old man with nothing left to offer.... Your childish "I know something you don't" BS adds to your reputation. and your inability to ackowledge an admitted mistake further proves your worthlessness as a human and your inability to play with or be accepted by others. No wonder you sit alone all day at your computer... you're just not any good at the HUMAN thing... Your paraphrasing anything in the case is worthless... post what was said so we can see what a shill you are. Mr. ALTGENS - Yes. What made me almost certain that the shot came from behind was because at the time I was looking at the President, just as he was struck, it caused him to move a bit forward. He seemed as if at the time----well, he was in a position-- sort of immobile. He wasn't upright. He was at an angle but when it hit him, it seemed to have just lodged--it seemed as if he were hung up on a seat button or something like that. It knocked him just enough forward that he came right on down. There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, so much so that it indicated to me that the shot came out of the left side of his head. Also, the fact that his head was covered with blood, the hairline included, on the left side all the way down, with no blood on his forehead or face--- suggested to me, too, that the shot came from the opposite side, meaning in the direction of this Depository Building, but at no time did I know for certain where the shot came from. "with no blood on his forehead or face--- suggested to me, too, that the shot came from the opposite side" From where JFK was at the headshot and where the TSBD is... the only way for the shot to exit the LEFT SIDE is that it came "from the opposite side"... and since he also says there was no blood on his FOREHEAD or FACE.... maybe explain this: Mr. ALTGENS - Because, having heard these shots and then having seen the damage that was done on this shot to the President's head, I was aware at that time that shooting was taking place and there was not a shot--I looked--I looked because I knew the shot had to come from either over here, if it were close range, or had to come from a high-powered rifle. Mr. LIEBELER - When you say "over here," you indicate what? Mr. ALTGENS - The left side of the car. The LEFT SIDE of the car based on where Altgens was, is the area behind Zapruder, the pergola and over to the RR yard and fence. Mr. LIEBELER - All right, as you stood here on the abutment and looked down into Elm Street, you saw the President hit on the right side of the head and you thought perhaps the shots had come from behind you? Mr. ZAPRUDER - Well, yes. Mr. LIEBELER - From the direction behind you? Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes, actually As to what happened--I remember the police were running behind me. There were police running right behind me. Of course, they didn't realize yet, I guess, where the shot came from--that it came from that height. Mr. LIEBELER - As you were standing on this abutment facing Elm street, you say the police ran over behind the concrete structure behind you and down the railroad track behind that, is that right? Mr. ZAPRUDER - After the shots? Mr. LIEBELER - Yes. Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes--after the shots--yes, some of them were motorcycle cops--I guess they left their motorcycles running and they were running right behind me, of course, in the line of the shooting. I guess they thought it came from right behind me. So we continue to see reactions related to shots from the rear AND from the side/front are mentioned by many.... Mr. STERN - Just a minute. Do you recall your impression at the time regarding the source of the shots? Mr. HARGIS - Well, at the time it sounded like the shots were right next to me. There wasn't any way in the world I could tell where they were coming from, but at the time there was something in my head that said that they probably could have been coming from the railroad overpass, because I thought since I had got splattered, with blood--I was Just a little back and left of--Just a little bit back and left of Mrs. Kennedy, but I didn't know. I had a feeling that it might have been from the Texas Book Depository, and these two places was the primary place that could have been shot from This from the person closest to JFK when he was hit, and not in the car at the time. You take a helf step forward and 9 steps back every time you get cloe to the case. The evidence and witnesses describe a cross-fire. A FILM EXPERT who actually saw the movie that weekend says he saw 6-8 shots from 3 directions... 2 sets of teams creating two sets of boards from two different Z films..... That hole your digging for yourself just gets deeper and deeper... the more you do to defend your beloved WCR, the worst your argument gets.... How many people run to the TSBD after the shots? I can only rememeber one who goes on to commit perjury during his testimony by contradicting his AFFIDAVIT from that day. but hey, watching you flounder around with your limited understanding of only bits and pieces of the case is highly entertaining... Adopting YOUR attitude that engaging in a thread with you is purely entertainment will work just fine from here on out... You're always good for a laugh, a {sigh}... and Well then... looks like I was wrong about those two frames... MPI did not make copies of 341 or 350 (486 as well I come to learn) and there does not seem to be copies of those two frames in general circulation... they would only be available at the archives or if you ordered that $$$ set of images. Mr. LIEBELER - You also testified that you were standing perhaps no more than 15 feet away when the President was hit in the head and that you are absolutely certain that there were no shots fired after the President was hit in the head? Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir; that's correct. One more very big problem for you davie jo. You love to quote Altgens, yet Altgens tells us about the wounds he sees to JFK's head...AFTER the headshot...but if the head shot occurs where you just said it did..Altgens can't SEE the damage to the side of JFK's head. IT IS HIDDEN FROM HIS VIEW. He can only see the damage he describes if the shot occurs up around the 313 area... OPPS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Hinrichs Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 That is one of the most dishonest and manipulated gifs I have ever seen. And anyone can see why. Jim, say what you like about Craig but his stable GIF is accurate as it can be. It's not manipulated in any way. I'am familiar to stable frames since years and did the same with this Zapruder frames 312 and 313. I used some four fix static points on the limo (Craig used more) but the output is very similar. Here is my turn: Clearly to see that JFK's head moved forward by some +/- 2 inches during 312 and 313. I wonder why Josiah stepped away from his research regarding this, seen in his speech in the Video. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Hinrichs Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Now i'am going to show a stable GIF which have only one fix point and this is JFK's head. To say the least a desperate attempt to stable this frames with the agenda prove JFK's head did not moved forward. I better let pictures talk: You see in this wrong GIF a somehow static head from JFK from a horizontal point of view. But it nod down. Now look at the other parts of the frames. No part of the frames line up. The fix points are beyond. To me, out of disscusion. Nothing fits here. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 (edited) WTF is "OPPS" old man... so excited to make a point you simply can't concentrate? Maybe if you ran off and took a p-iss first...you know, BEFORE you get all worked up... old men and their bladders ... That you posess knowledge and wait around to bait others is pathetic... the much needed jollies of a hasbeen old man with nothing left to offer.... Your childish "I know something you don't" BS adds to your reputation. and your inability to ackowledge an admitted mistake further proves your worthlessness as a human and your inability to play with or be accepted by others. You sure you really want to go down that road you silly little boy? Its the same as these spews of yours in this very post. You too busy trying to hide your forum postings AT WORK? cloe. Whats a cloe? Karma is a real mother, helf. HELF? whats that your gender? ackowledge? LOL! posess? hasbeen? ROFLMAO rememeber? I have no problem at all with being a very bad speller. It's who I am. But I must say seeing you make this big of a fool of yourself over one of my errors...after you made all of these...well its just warms my heart. I waited around? Really? i told you with my VERY FIRST REPLY to you over at Duncans you were wrong, I supported it with two statements and even showed your the two ACTUAL and only splices to the film. You disagreed. I asked you to SHOW US YOUR WORK ( that phrase ring a bell little boy) both here and at Duncans. it was YOUR claim and YOUR burden of proof. I was under no obligation to post 341 and 350. Consider it a GIFT that I did. The best you could do to try and support your claim was say the "only thing we have", the Costella edit, shows the splices at 349 and 340. Then you even failed to tell the truth when you got called on it. You really showed your lack of research. This is not news, there are countless references to these frames and the MPI ( the basis for the Costella edit) all over google. Instead you ran you mouth, thinking you knew better then the rest of the world when the fact is you simply MADE IT ALL UP FROM THIN AIR. You simply had NO CLUE what so ever. After all of this you are somehow upset that I did not say, "way to admit your mistake"? Oh please. You got back exactly what you gave. No wonder you sit alone all day at your computer... you're just not any good at the HUMAN thing... Your paraphrasing anything in the case is worthless... post what was said so we can see what a shill you are. Little boy, I post from all over, from my phone, from my iPad, from my laptop, and from my desktop. Often while I'm traveling, having lunch, while taking a break while on a shoot , watching tv wiht my wife and family or even for after reading your really silly posts while I'm doing post processing, just to take a break. And little boy, I suggest you take a good long look at your own posts...pot meet kettle and all of that. And I got Altgens exactly correct. You lose again. He can't see what he says he sees if the shot is where you say it is. End of story. Altgens: "meaning in the direction of this Depository Building, but at no time did I know for certain where the shot came from." "Mr. ALTGENS - The left side of the car." little boy sez: The LEFT SIDE of the car based on where Altgens was, is the area behind Zapruder, the pergola and over to the RR yard and fence. You really can't read and comprehend with your ct goggles on. Left side of the car at the headshot, 313, from Altgens is the TSBD. You lose again. Mr. LIEBELER - All right, as you stood here on the abutment and looked down into Elm Street, you saw the President hit on the right side of the head and you thought perhaps the shots had come from behind you? Mr. ZAPRUDER - Well, yes. Mr. LIEBELER - From the direction behind you? Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes, actually As to what happened--I remember the police were running behind me. There were police running right behind me. Of course, they didn't realize yet, I guess, where the shot came from--that it came from that height. Behind Zapruder, to his left while facing Elm at 313...is the TSBD...THAT HEIGHT...oops. So we continue to see reactions related to shots from the rear AND from the side/front are mentioned by many.... Mr. STERN - Just a minute. Do you recall your impression at the time regarding the source of the shots? Mr. HARGIS - ...I had a feeling that it might have been from the Texas Book Depository... Wrong again little boy, yet another TSBD. You take a helf step forward and 9 steps back every time you get cloe to the case. The evidence and witnesses describe a cross-fire. A FILM EXPERT who actually saw the movie that weekend says he saw 6-8 shots from 3 directions... 2 sets of teams creating two sets of boards from two different Z films..... That hole your digging for yourself just gets deeper and deeper... the more you do to defend your beloved WCR, the worst your argument gets.... How many people run to the TSBD after the shots? I can only rememeber one who goes on to commit perjury during his testimony by contradicting his AFFIDAVIT from that day. No they describe a shot from the TSBD. You have to be WAY into fantasy land to come up with a crossfire. And that 'film expert'..you mean drunk, druggie, LAB TECH? Or two copies of the same film. Good luck proving other wise, Maybe you can do better than Horne. Oh wait Horne is your 'source' Well that's really too bad...FOR YOU. You are the one one digging holes. You don't have a clue and it appears you never will. Edited May 16, 2013 by Craig Lamson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Hinrichs Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Now at least i'am posting a GIF based upon the frames 312-315 again in stable form. I believe it was shown also from Chris Davidson a while ago. It shows a bone piece from JFK's head moving fast towards the front and down into the SS-100-X footroom. Frame 314 is the frame showing the bone piece. Frame 315 is the moment JFK's head started to move backwards. Here the GIF: Strong evidence of a shot from behind hitting JFK's head. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 (edited) Martin... The third law of physics is well understood... the skull MUST move to resist the frontal shot... a shot from behind carries with it much more baggage... Using the available evidence... please explain WHERE the shot entered the back of the head... WHERE it exited... HOW that trail of particles is left that high up... and WHY doesn't this xray show the bone as seen in the photos from the same time? A shot from the rear, from the 6th floor, exists his face... WHY do we not have a single Parkland witness say there is any damage to the face, front or top of the head and yet can have Boswell give us this "approximation" showing virtually the entire skull missing? Edited May 16, 2013 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Martin... The third law of physics is well understood... the skull MUST move to resist the frontal shot... a shot from behind carries with it much more baggage... Using the available evidence... please explain WHERE the shot entered the back of the head... WHERE it exited... HOW that trail of particles is left that high up... and WHY doesn't this xray show the bone as seen in the photos from the same time? A shot from the rear, from the 6th floor, exists his face... WHY do we not have a single Parkland witness say there is any damage to the face, front or top of the head and yet can have Boswell give us this "approximation" showing virtually the entire skull missing? So explain little boy how a ball on a batting tee moves TOWARDS a bat that is striking it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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