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Multiple Ejecta or Single Piece?


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Mr. Lamson

Please post for us the part of Mr. Altgens' testimony to the WC in which he describes JFK's wounds. I believe Mr. Altgens is not particularly clear in his description and it can be interpreted several ways.

Mr. ALTOENS. Yes. What made me almost certain that the shot came from behind was because at the time I was looking at the President, just as he was struck, it caused him to move a bit forward. He seemed as if at the time- well, he was in a position-sort of immobile. He wasn’t upright.’ He was at an angle but when it hit him, it seemed to have just lodged-it seemed as if he were hung up on a seat button or something like that. It knocked him- just enough forward that he came right on down. There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, so much so that it indicated to me that the shot came out of the left side of his head. Also, the fact that his head was covered with blood, the hairline included, on the left side-all the way down, with no blood on his forehead or face-suggested to me, too, that the shot came from the opposite side, mean- ing in the direction of this Depository Building, but at no time did I know for certain where the shot came from.

Pretty specfic....

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Mr. Lamson

Please post for us the part of Mr. Altgens' testimony to the WC in which he describes JFK's wounds. I believe Mr. Altgens is not particularly clear in his description and it can be interpreted several ways.

Mr. ALTOENS. Yes. What made me almost certain that the shot came from behind was because at the time I was looking at the President, just as he was struck, it caused him to move a bit forward. He seemed as if at the time- well, he was in a position-sort of immobile. He wasn’t upright.’ He was at an angle but when it hit him, it seemed to have just lodged-it seemed as if he were hung up on a seat button or something like that. It knocked him- just enough forward that he came right on down. There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, so much so that it indicated to me that the shot came out of the left side of his head. with no blood on his foreheaAlso, the fact that his head was covered with blood, the hairline included, on the left side-all the way down, d or face-suggested to me, too, that the shot came from the opposite side, mean- ing in the direction of this Depository Building, but at no time did I know for certain where the shot came from.

Pretty specfic....

Mr. Lamson

Yes, quite specific. I am especially interested in " There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, so much so that it indicated to me that the shot came out of the left side of his head. with no blood on his foreheaAlso, the fact that his head was covered with blood, the hairline included, on the left side-all the way down, d or face-suggested to me, too, that the shot came from the opposite side, mean- ing in the direction of this Depository Building......."

Everything Mr. Altgens is describing are observations he made about the LEFT side of JFK's head. Do you think Mr. Altgens would have difficulty seeing the left side of JFK's head if the limousine were directly in front of him?

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Craig,

CE875, Harper fragment location and Hudson's testimony.

chris

Pretty opened ended. "DIRECTLY" where? Was he looking and sitting LEFT? CENTERED? RIGHT?

Gets you nowhere ... fast.

And it gets even worse. IF you take him literally, it puts the head shot in the 370's

Edited by Craig Lamson
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Mr. Lamson

Please post for us the part of Mr. Altgens' testimony to the WC in which he describes JFK's wounds. I believe Mr. Altgens is not particularly clear in his description and it can be interpreted several ways.

Mr. ALTOENS. Yes. What made me almost certain that the shot came from behind was because at the time I was looking at the President, just as he was struck, it caused him to move a bit forward. He seemed as if at the time- well, he was in a position-sort of immobile. He wasn’t upright.’ He was at an angle but when it hit him, it seemed to have just lodged-it seemed as if he were hung up on a seat button or something like that. It knocked him- just enough forward that he came right on down. There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, so much so that it indicated to me that the shot came out of the left side of his head. with no blood on his foreheaAlso, the fact that his head was covered with blood, the hairline included, on the left side-all the way down, d or face-suggested to me, too, that the shot came from the opposite side, mean- ing in the direction of this Depository Building, but at no time did I know for certain where the shot came from.

Pretty specfic....

Mr. Lamson

Yes, quite specific. I am especially interested in " There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, so much so that it indicated to me that the shot came out of the left side of his head. with no blood on his foreheaAlso, the fact that his head was covered with blood, the hairline included, on the left side-all the way down, d or face-suggested to me, too, that the shot came from the opposite side, mean- ing in the direction of this Depository Building......."

Everything Mr. Altgens is describing are observations he made about the LEFT side of JFK's head. Do you think Mr. Altgens would have difficulty seeing the left side of JFK's head if the limousine were directly in front of him?

Mr. Lamson??

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Mr. Lamson

Please post for us the part of Mr. Altgens' testimony to the WC in which he describes JFK's wounds. I believe Mr. Altgens is not particularly clear in his description and it can be interpreted several ways.

Mr. ALTOENS. Yes. What made me almost certain that the shot came from behind was because at the time I was looking at the President, just as he was struck, it caused him to move a bit forward. He seemed as if at the time- well, he was in a position-sort of immobile. He wasn’t upright.’ He was at an angle but when it hit him, it seemed to have just lodged-it seemed as if he were hung up on a seat button or something like that. It knocked him- just enough forward that he came right on down. There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, so much so that it indicated to me that the shot came out of the left side of his head. with no blood on his foreheaAlso, the fact that his head was covered with blood, the hairline included, on the left side-all the way down, d or face-suggested to me, too, that the shot came from the opposite side, mean- ing in the direction of this Depository Building, but at no time did I know for certain where the shot came from. [/size]

Pretty specfic....

Mr. Lamson

Yes, quite specific. I am especially interested in " There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, so much so that it indicated to me that the shot came out of the left side of his head. with no blood on his foreheaAlso, the fact that his head was covered with blood, the hairline included, on the left side-all the way down, d or face-suggested to me, too, that the shot came from the opposite side, mean- ing in the direction of this Depository Building......."

Everything Mr. Altgens is describing are observations he made about the LEFT side of JFK's head. Do you think Mr. Altgens would have difficulty seeing the left side of JFK's head if the limousine were directly in front of him?

Mr. Lamson??

Which left side? Roflmao. Reading and comprehension not your strong suit? Lol!

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Mr. Lamson

Please post for us the part of Mr. Altgens' testimony to the WC in which he describes JFK's wounds. I believe Mr. Altgens is not particularly clear in his description and it can be interpreted several ways.

Mr. ALTOENS. Yes. What made me almost certain that the shot came from behind was because at the time I was looking at the President, just as he was struck, it caused him to move a bit forward. He seemed as if at the time- well, he was in a position-sort of immobile. He wasn’t upright.’ He was at an angle but when it hit him, it seemed to have just lodged-it seemed as if he were hung up on a seat button or something like that. It knocked him- just enough forward that he came right on down. There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, so much so that it indicated to me that the shot came out of the left side of his head. with no blood on his foreheaAlso, the fact that his head was covered with blood, the hairline included, on the left side-all the way down, d or face-suggested to me, too, that the shot came from the opposite side, mean- ing in the direction of this Depository Building, but at no time did I know for certain where the shot came from. [/size]

Pretty specfic....

Mr. Lamson

Yes, quite specific. I am especially interested in " There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, so much so that it indicated to me that the shot came out of the left side of his head. with no blood on his foreheaAlso, the fact that his head was covered with blood, the hairline included, on the left side-all the way down, d or face-suggested to me, too, that the shot came from the opposite side, mean- ing in the direction of this Depository Building......."

Everything Mr. Altgens is describing are observations he made about the LEFT side of JFK's head. Do you think Mr. Altgens would have difficulty seeing the left side of JFK's head if the limousine were directly in front of him?

Mr. Lamson??
Which left side? Roflmao. Reading and comprehension not your strong suit? Lol!

Mr. Lamson

"There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, so much so that it indicated to me that the shot came out of the left side of his head."

This is very basic material. Please do not feign an inability to comprehend. This is not the JFK Assassination Forum. People here are not amused by your circus antics.

Mr. Altgens is obviously describing the anatomical left side of JFK's head. It would be impossible for material blowing out the anatomical right side of JFK's head to have flown towards Mr. Altgens, even if JFK was struck at z313.

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Mr. Lamson

"There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, so much so that it indicated to me that the shot came out of the left side of his head."

This is very basic material. Please do not feign an inability to comprehend. This is not the JFK Assassination Forum. People here are not amused by your circus antics.

Mr. Altgens is obviously describing the anatomical left side of JFK's head. It would be impossible for material blowing out the anatomical right side of JFK's head to have flown towards Mr. Altgens, even if JFK was struck at z313.

ROFLMAO! Are you kidding bobby? If what you say is true, which it can't be...you have just created the kookiest CT since Lifton did the body tango!

And WHY would it be impossible for the ejecta from the anatomical right of JFK's head to fly towards Altgens? Heck Altgens was nearly in a direct line from JFK to the 6th floor window, if what Altgens says about the location of the shooter is true.

You just took ct silliness to a entirely new level!

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Mr. Lamson

"There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, so much so that it indicated to me that the shot came out of the left side of his head."

This is very basic material. Please do not feign an inability to comprehend. This is not the JFK Assassination Forum. People here are not amused by your circus antics.

Mr. Altgens is obviously describing the anatomical left side of JFK's head. It would be impossible for material blowing out the anatomical right side of JFK's head to have flown towards Mr. Altgens, even if JFK was struck at z313.

ROFLMAO! Are you kidding bobby? If what you say is true, which it can't be...you have just created the kookiest CT since Lifton did the body tango!

And WHY would it be impossible for the ejecta from the anatomical right of JFK's head to fly towards Altgens? Heck Altgens was nearly in a direct line from JFK to the 6th floor window, if what Altgens says about the location of the shooter is true.

You just took ct silliness to a entirely new level!

Mr. Lamson

As I said, your circus antics on this forum are likely just barely tolerated.

Read Mr. Altgens words again. ""There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, so much so that it indicated to me that the shot came out of the left side of his head."

What part of " the shot came out of the left side of his head." are you having trouble with?

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Mr. Lamson

"There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, so much so that it indicated to me that the shot came out of the left side of his head."

This is very basic material. Please do not feign an inability to comprehend. This is not the JFK Assassination Forum. People here are not amused by your circus antics.

Mr. Altgens is obviously describing the anatomical left side of JFK's head. It would be impossible for material blowing out the anatomical right side of JFK's head to have flown towards Mr. Altgens, even if JFK was struck at z313.

ROFLMAO! Are you kidding bobby? If what you say is true, which it can't be...you have just created the kookiest CT since Lifton did the body tango!

And WHY would it be impossible for the ejecta from the anatomical right of JFK's head to fly towards Altgens? Heck Altgens was nearly in a direct line from JFK to the 6th floor window, if what Altgens says about the location of the shooter is true.

You just took ct silliness to a entirely new level!

Mr. Lamson

As I said, your circus antics on this forum are likely just barely tolerated.

Read Mr. Altgens words again. ""There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, so much so that it indicated to me that the shot came out of the left side of his head."

What part of " the shot came out of the left side of his head." are you having trouble with?

The part where you can't understand it was the left side AS SEEN BY ALTGENS....which was JFK's anatomical RIGHT.

I would say something about some really clownish theories about I don't think there is a need....I can't imagine anyone here takes the thought that it was the LEFT anatomical side of JFK's head that Altgens was describing and being shot out seriously. Except you of course.

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Mr. Lamson

"There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, so much so that it indicated to me that the shot came out of the left side of his head."

This is very basic material. Please do not feign an inability to comprehend. This is not the JFK Assassination Forum. People here are not amused by your circus antics.

Mr. Altgens is obviously describing the anatomical left side of JFK's head. It would be impossible for material blowing out the anatomical right side of JFK's head to have flown towards Mr. Altgens, even if JFK was struck at z313.

ROFLMAO! Are you kidding bobby? If what you say is true, which it can't be...you have just created the kookiest CT since Lifton did the body tango!

And WHY would it be impossible for the ejecta from the anatomical right of JFK's head to fly towards Altgens? Heck Altgens was nearly in a direct line from JFK to the 6th floor window, if what Altgens says about the location of the shooter is true.

You just took ct silliness to a entirely new level!

Mr. Lamson

As I said, your circus antics on this forum are likely just barely tolerated.

Read Mr. Altgens words again. ""There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, so much so that it indicated to me that the shot came out of the left side of his head."

What part of " the shot came out of the left side of his head." are you having trouble with?

The part where you can't understand it was the left side AS SEEN BY ALTGENS....which was JFK's anatomical RIGHT.

I would say something about some really clownish theories about I don't think there is a need....I can't imagine anyone here takes the thought that it was the LEFT anatomical side of JFK's head that Altgens was describing and being shot out seriously. Except you of course.

Mr. Lamson

I have been as patient with you as is to be reasonably expected from a human being.

However, I will attempt one last time to explain Mr. Altgens' words for you.

If Mr. Altgens said, "flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing", would that not clearly indicate Mr. Altgens was indicating the left side of JFK's head? If we look at z312, the right side of JFK's head is presented toward Mr. Zapruder. At best, Mr. Altgens would be able to see JFK's face, but not the right side of his head.

This is further enforced by Mr. Altgens' next words, " so much so that it indicated to me that the shot came out of the left side of his head." Mr. Altgens is plainly telling us that he believed the shot exited the left side of JFK's head; not the right side, not his face nor the top of his head but, plain as plain can be, "the shot came out of the left side of his head."

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Mr. Lamson

"There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, so much so that it indicated to me that the shot came out of the left side of his head."

This is very basic material. Please do not feign an inability to comprehend. This is not the JFK Assassination Forum. People here are not amused by your circus antics.

Mr. Altgens is obviously describing the anatomical left side of JFK's head. It would be impossible for material blowing out the anatomical right side of JFK's head to have flown towards Mr. Altgens, even if JFK was struck at z313.

ROFLMAO! Are you kidding bobby? If what you say is true, which it can't be...you have just created the kookiest CT since Lifton did the body tango!

And WHY would it be impossible for the ejecta from the anatomical right of JFK's head to fly towards Altgens? Heck Altgens was nearly in a direct line from JFK to the 6th floor window, if what Altgens says about the location of the shooter is true.

You just took ct silliness to a entirely new level!

Mr. Lamson

As I said, your circus antics on this forum are likely just barely tolerated.

Read Mr. Altgens words again. ""There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing, so much so that it indicated to me that the shot came out of the left side of his head."

What part of " the shot came out of the left side of his head." are you having trouble with?

The part where you can't understand it was the left side AS SEEN BY ALTGENS....which was JFK's anatomical RIGHT.

I would say something about some really clownish theories about I don't think there is a need....I can't imagine anyone here takes the thought that it was the LEFT anatomical side of JFK's head that Altgens was describing and being shot out seriously. Except you of course.

Mr. Lamson

I have been as patient with you as is to be reasonably expected from a human being.

However, I will attempt one last time to explain Mr. Altgens' words for you.

If Mr. Altgens said, "flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing", would that not clearly indicate Mr. Altgens was indicating the left side of JFK's head? If we look at z312, the right side of JFK's head is presented toward Mr. Zapruder. At best, Mr. Altgens would be able to see JFK's face, but not the right side of his head.

This is further enforced by Mr. Altgens' next words, " so much so that it indicated to me that the shot came out of the left side of his head." Mr. Altgens is plainly telling us that he believed the shot exited the left side of JFK's head; not the right side, not his face nor the top of his head but, plain as plain can be, "the shot came out of the left side of his head."

Ok bob, you can have the red nose and the big shoes for that one...

Edited by Craig Lamson
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Mr. Lamson

You seem quick to make assumptions. This is a character flaw I would work on.

You seem to be under the impression that I, pesonally, believe the shot exited the left side of JFK's head, when, in reality, I have never stated that belief. I am merely attempting to clarify that Mr. Altgens clearly believed the shot exited the left side of JFK's head and stated so in his testimony to the Warren Commission.

In light of Mr. Altgens' clear inability to make good observations, perhaps you would care to explain your statement to Mr. Davidson (seen below) and how you can be so sure that Mr. Altgens' observations can prove that the fatal head shot occurred at the location of z313 and not further down Elm St.

"One small problem Chris, according to Altgens testimony, the shot had to happen up near 313 for him to see the damage he says he saw to JFK...."

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Mr. Lamson

You seem quick to make assumptions. This is a character flaw I would work on.

You seem to be under the impression that I, pesonally, believe the shot exited the left side of JFK's head, when, in reality, I have never stated that belief. I am merely attempting to clarify that Mr. Altgens clearly believed the shot exited the left side of JFK's head and stated so in his testimony to the Warren Commission.

In light of Mr. Altgens' clear inability to make good observations, perhaps you would care to explain your statement to Mr. Davidson (seen below) and how you can be so sure that Mr. Altgens' observations can prove that the fatal head shot occurred at the location of z313 and not further down Elm St.

"One small problem Chris, according to Altgens testimony, the shot had to happen up near 313 for him to see the damage he says he saw to JFK...."

Bob does the backstroke....

I take witness testimony with a big shaker of salt Bob, and this is a prefect reason why. Chris and others who do the "Altgens" headshot like to quote his saying it was 15 feet from him. And we know for a fact he screwed up his 30 guess on the shot he took prior to the headshot. Earth to Bob. They can't have it both ways.

Please learn to read Bob, and then get back to us when you do. Just don't trip in those big shoes.

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Mr. Lamson

You seem quick to make assumptions. This is a character flaw I would work on.

You seem to be under the impression that I, pesonally, believe the shot exited the left side of JFK's head, when, in reality, I have never stated that belief. I am merely attempting to clarify that Mr. Altgens clearly believed the shot exited the left side of JFK's head and stated so in his testimony to the Warren Commission.

In light of Mr. Altgens' clear inability to make good observations, perhaps you would care to explain your statement to Mr. Davidson (seen below) and how you can be so sure that Mr. Altgens' observations can prove that the fatal head shot occurred at the location of z313 and not further down Elm St.

"One small problem Chris, according to Altgens testimony, the shot had to happen up near 313 for him to see the damage he says he saw to JFK...."

Bob does the backstroke....

I take witness testimony with a big shaker of salt Bob, and this is a prefect reason why. Chris and others who do the "Altgens" headshot like to quote his saying it was 15 feet from him. And we know for a fact he screwed up his 30 guess on the shot he took prior to the headshot. Earth to Bob. They can't have it both ways.

Please learn to read Bob, and then get back to us when you do. Just don't trip in those big shoes.

Mr. Lamson

You seem to contradict yourself on a regular basis. One might almost say your actions border on being hypocritical. This is another serious character flaw that seems to be prevalent in Lone Nuts.

On the one hand, you rely on Mr. Altgens' eyewitness testimony to admonish Mr. Davidson in this statement from you,

"One small problem Chris, according to Altgens testimony, the shot had to happen up near 313 for him to see the damage he says he saw to JFK...."

And yet, when pressed about the reliability of Mr. Altgens' testimony, you take the position "I take witness testimony with a big shaker of salt Bob".

You then go on to say that "Chris and others" (referring, I assume, to Mr. Davidson and a goodly number of other researchers on this forum) want to have it both ways when it comes to Mr. Altgens' testimony.

Do you not see how you contradict yourself here? Mr. Altgens' testimony is good enough when you wish to refute Mr. Davidson, but, outside of that, you " take witness testimony with a big shaker of salt".

It is clearly you who wants it both ways. The pot is definitely calling the kettle black here.

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