Joseph McBride, Into the Nightmare: My Search for the Killers of President John F. Kennedy and Officer J. D. Tippit (2013)

[David Von Pein]

Oswald practically confessed to J.D. Tippit's murder, as discussed here:

"They Say It Just Takes A Second To Die"

David, old chap, didn't your mother tell you not to trust HEARSAY?

Hearsay is not admissible in court, as a general rule,

From DVP's website:

LEE HARVEY OSWALD -- "What is this all about? I know my rights. .... Police officer been killed? I hear they burn for murder."

C.T. WALKER -- "You might find out."

LEE HARVEY OSWALD -- "Well, they say it just takes a second to die."

I say David, old chap, do you have any CORROBORATION for this ridiculous claim?

Why do you think Walker would lie about that LHO comment, J. Raymond?

Let me guess -- Everybody wanted to join the "Let's Frame Oswald" and "Let's Tell Lies About What Oswald Said" clubs (including C.T. Walker)....right?

Edited July 30, 2013 by David Von Pein

[Pat Speer]

Even if Walker quoted Oswald correctly, David, there is nothing in the statement to suggest Oswald killed Tippit.

The officer gave Oswald some attitude ("you might find out") and Oswald gave it right back.

That's what men (particularly Marines) do. Guilty or not.

When one looks at the sum total of Oswald's behavior after the shooting, in fact, one finds that Oswald was way cooler and calmer than everyone around him. Some read this as cockiness. It seems just as likely, however, that he KNEW he was innocent of killing Kennedy, and knew either 1) how to prove it, or 2) who was responsible, and was waiting for the right time and right person with whom to share this info.

[David Von Pein]

Even if Walker quoted Oswald correctly, David, there is nothing in the statement to suggest Oswald killed Tippit.

Well, Oswald didn't come right out and admit to Officer C.T. Walker that he had just gunned down a policeman, that's true enough.

But at the same time, I'm trying to imagine an innocent person, who didn't shoot anybody, making the following statement to a police officer right after being arrested in a violent struggle, during which he is waving a gun around trying to shoot some cops and screaming "It's all over now" and/or "This is it".....

"Well, they say it just takes a second to die."

The officer gave Oswald some attitude ("you might find out") and Oswald gave it right back. That's what men (particularly Marines) do. Guilty or not.

Maybe some people would be so cocky and sure of themselves. But since we all know that Oswald positively murdered Officer Tippit (that's not even a debatable point after evaluating all the evidence), we can therefore know that Oswald's cockiness was most certainly not born out of innocence. He killed Tippit and he started playing around with the cops almost immediately--even on the way to City Hall in the police car.

When one looks at the sum total of Oswald's behavior after the shooting, in fact, one finds that Oswald was way cooler and calmer than everyone around him.

Which is, IMO, something that leads toward his guilt much more so than his innocence. Either that, or Lee Harvey Oswald was one heck of an actor and should have probably won the Oscar instead of Gregory Peck.

And, btw, that "sum total of Oswald's behavior after the shooting" needs to include more than just Oswald's actions and statements AFTER being arrested. We need to look at his bahavior and actions BETWEEN the time JFK & Tippit were shot and the time of his arrest in the theater.

And during that "in between" time, Oswald did things that reek with a guilty state of mind:

1.) He leaves the TSBD within approx. three minutes of JFK getting shot. (And JFK just happened to get shot with OSWALD'S own gun. But maybe that was just some more of Lee Oswald's severe "bad luck" that he was experiencing on 11/22/63.)

2.) He takes a taxi to his room....which is extremely out of character for the miserly Mr. Oswald. (What was his hurry anyway, if he was only intending to go to the movies after work?)

3.) He grabs a gun.

4.) He's seen acting "funny" and "scared" outside Johnny Brewer's store.

5.) He pulls a gun on policemen inside the Texas Theater.

6.) He shouts one or two things in the theater that can only be looked upon as being quite incriminating in nature. (I mean, how do CTers reconcile a statement like "It's all over now" within a theory that has Oswald INNOCENT of any wrong-doing on Nov. 22? WHAT is "all over now"? Do conspiracy theorists ever say?)

In summary -- Oswald's actions after 12:30 PM on November 22 are practically a blueprint or a road map to his guilt (and conviction).

How can anyone examine Oswald's post-assassination actions, movements, and statements and still think he was an "innocent patsy"? How is that even possible to do?

It seems just as likely, however, that he KNEW he was innocent of killing Kennedy, and knew either 1) how to prove it, or 2) who was responsible, and was waiting for the right time and right person with whom to share this info.

That's a cop-out, Pat. Oswald never uttered a word about anyone else being involved. But CTers like to use the excuse of Oh, he was just waiting until the right time to spill his guts. The CTers are, of course, free to believe that if they want to. But it doesn't have the ring of truth, in my view. What was he "waiting" for? If he's innocent of shooting anybody, why not spill the beans BEFORE he's actually officially charged with the President's murder? Or Tippit's murder?

Oswald was guilty of both of those murders, Pat. And I think you're way too smart to believe otherwise.

Edited July 31, 2013 by David Von Pein

[J. Raymond Carroll]

Why do you think Walker would lie about that LHO comment, J. Raymond?

Let me guess -- Everybody wanted to join the "Let's Frame Oswald" and "Let's Tell Lies About What Oswald Said" clubs (including C.T. Walker)....right?

Guys like to brag, David, in case you haven't noticed.

Lee Oswald was surrounded by cops, yet Walker ALONE claimed to have heard him say these words. No one else heard it, if memory serves, yet the other cops were in a position where they would have heard it IF HE HAD SAID IT.

Same goes for McDonald's uncorroborated claim to have heard Lee say "it's all over now, baby blue."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3yzpl5wZYc

So McDonald could brag that, not only did he capture the assassin, he even got him to admit his guilt!

Edited July 31, 2013 by J. Raymond Carroll

[J. Raymond Carroll]

That's a cop-out, Pat. Oswald never uttered a word about anyone else being involved.

Ha Ha, David. I seem to recall that he tried to make it clear that he did not kill anyone,

so he can ONLY have meant that the killing was the work of another, or others.

[Evan Marshall]

Joseph

keep the faith and stay the course. I can tell you as some one who did 2 tours with Detroit Homicide that this case was not investigated properly.

[David Von Pein]

Guys like to brag, David, in case you haven't noticed.

Lee Oswald was surrounded by cops, yet Walker ALONE claimed to have heard him say these words. No one else heard it, if memory serves, yet the other cops were in a position where they would have heard it IF HE HAD SAID IT.

Same goes for McDonald's uncorroborated claim to have heard Lee say "it's all over now..."

Wrong.

Oswald's "It's all over now" statement was corroborated by Detective Paul Bentley on live television (WFAA-TV) on Saturday, November 23, 1963. In fact, Bentley confirms that Oswald uttered BOTH of the statements that Officer M.N. McDonald said he heard Oswald say inside the Texas Theater, including Oswald's "This is it" statement as well. And both of those statements, of course, have Oswald's guilty state of mind stamped all over them.

You can hear Paul Bentley say those words ["This is it" and "It's all over with now"] in Bentley's hallway interview at the 4:58 mark in Part 27 of the video series below:

YouTube.com / WFAA-TV Playlist

Footnote---

BTW, before anyone jumps on my case and screams "Double Standard!" about my accepting the testimony of Officer C.T. Walker (with regard to Walker claiming to have heard Lee Oswald say "I hear they burn for murder" and "They say it just takes a second to die"), while at the same time disregarding and deeming false the testimony of another person connected to the JFK case--Roy Kellerman--who claimed to hear someone say something in a crowded car filled with other people that nobody else inside that same car said they heard at all (JFK's alleged "My God, I am hit" utterance) -- I'm ready to fall on my sword right now. I admit it, I'm exhibiting a double standard when it comes to evaluating the truthfulness or falsity of those two very similar situations.

But let me repeat a fact of life that everybody must face (whether we want to face it or not): At one time or another when probing and examining the details of the JFK murder case, everybody chooses the testimony and evidence that they like best. I made that very point in a post on this forum just twelve days ago, in fact:

"And, FYI, everybody in JFK research "picks & chooses" the testimony they like best. We all do it. It's inevitable. Otherwise, every single witness would likely have to be thrown in the trash can, because there's almost always some part of each witness' testimony or statements or affidavit that we don't think is perfectly accurate (whether it be a "CTer" or an "LNer" doing the evaluating). So, to some degree, we always "pick and choose" the statements that best fit our overall beliefs regarding the case." -- DVP; July 19, 2013

Show me a person who has looked into the JFK case for an extended period of time who says he has never done any "picking and choosing" of statements and testimony or has never exhibited a "double standard" regarding anything connected to the case, and I'll show you a person who is very likely gilding the lily.

Edited July 31, 2013 by David Von Pein

[J. Raymond Carroll]

Wrong.

Oswald's "It's all over now" statement was corroborated by Detective Paul Bentley on live television (WFAA-TV) on Saturday, November 23, 1963. In fact, Bentley confirms that Oswald uttered BOTH of the statements that Officer M.N. McDonald said he heard Oswald say inside the Texas Theater, including Oswald's "This is it" statement as well. And both of those statements, of course, have Oswald's guilty state of mind stamped all over them.

Thank you for pointing that out David.

It is interesting that Bentley corroborates McDonald on another incident that never happened:

Bentley also claimed, as McDonald claimed, that the hammer of Oswald's revolver fell on his hand (and dented the primer, from memory).

The FBI says both these men are full of it. There was no dent on the primer.

[David Von Pein]

TV interviews with Paul Bentley and Nick McDonald:

DVP-Potpourri.blogspot.com/Interviews With McDonald And Bentley

Edited August 1, 2013 by David Von Pein

[Ron Ecker]

Oswald never uttered a word about anyone else being involved.

"I'm just a patsy." How does that translate into no one else being involved?

[Ken Davies]

In LN parlance that seems to mean "I did it. I'm guilty. Just shoot me." Ruby seems to have interpreted it that way too!

[David Von Pein]

"I'm just a patsy." How does that translate into no one else being involved?

And you believe everything uttered by the person with a huge reason to lie in this case, right?

And, of course, Oswald was aiming his "Patsy" remark at the DPD and nobody else. And does anybody really believe the DPD was using Lee Harvey Oswald as a patsy simply because Lee had lived in Russia? Because if you want to believe Oswald, then that must be true.

Or would you like to pick apart Oswald's "I'm just a patsy" statement and dissect it to your liking? I.E., Lee was being totally truthful when he said he was a patsy, but he was lying when he said these words exactly one second prior to saying he was a patsy:

"They've taken me in because of the fact that I lived in the Soviet Union."

Good luck with a jury on that one.

JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/Oswald's Big Fat "Patsy" Lie

Edited August 2, 2013 by David Von Pein

[J. Raymond Carroll]

David Von Pein writes:

does anybody really believe the DPD was using Lee Harvey Oswald as a patsy simply because Lee had lived in Russia?

THe point is, that is what Lee Oswald believed.

When he asked himself why he -- a fan of JFK and no fan of LBJ -- would be falsely accused,

it must have seemed logical to him to guess that it was his Soviet background that made him a target.

And today we know that he guessed right.

[David Von Pein]

The point is, that is what Lee Oswald believed.

I've got a much better theory:

Lee H. Oswald was a xxxx. (Think: "Curtain rods".)

I suppose Oswald was telling the whole truth about his "curtain rod" package too, eh Ray?

I'm just wondering how far the "Oswald Shot Nobody" conspiracy theorists will go when it comes to believing every single word Lee Harvey said on Nov. 22 and Nov. 23? How many provable lies out of Oswald's mouth would it take for you to admit that LHO wasn't snow white?

Edited August 2, 2013 by David Von Pein

[Mark Knight]

Could "youse guys" who want to discuss the validity of the WC report start another thread...so that those of us who want to learn more about Joseph McBride's book can do so on THIS thread?

Thanks.