David Josephs Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) I tried to find photos of those trees specifically and finally have... from the next day or two... The polaroid lens was maybe 114mm (most seemed to be) with a 1/1200 sec shutter speed - so that's why everything is in "focus" yet the 'Land Camera 80' as her camera is described as, was really a model 800 it appears. and why it appears we are closer to the building than she was.... The tree limbs match while the image on the right was probably taken with a standard 35mm... - yet, where is the light pole in Moorman? Good find, David. The photo on the right looks like it may have been taken a few feet West of Moorman's position. Gives an excellent illustration of the tree line against the TSBD. I am curious who took it and what day they snapped the photo. Regarding the Light pole, if you look at the uncropped Moorman photo, there is something that resembles the light pole near the right side of the photo. Thanks Richard - I see that now... Amazing how the angles on things change so much about their perceived appearance and location. That has to be one of the worst polaroid photos ever taken! I find it nearly impossible to believe THAT was how it came out. DJ btw - the few photos I have of the flowers in the middle grass area do not tell me where I got them, sadly. Edited January 8, 2014 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Kelly Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Do you guys still think a shot from the 5th floor West face of the building is feasible? As I think it through, it make sense. Not expert in the trajectories, but... with the entire world focused (for 50 years) on the open windows of the 6th floor South side of the building, it amazes me that other locations were not more rigorously investigated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 It also amazes me that when the DPD found "the gun" they immediately stopped looking for other assassins in Dealey Plaza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Mitcham Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Do you guys still think a shot from the 5th floor West face of the building is feasible? As I think it through, it make sense. Not expert in the trajectories, but... with the entire world focused (for 50 years) on the open windows of the 6th floor South side of the building, it amazes me that other locations were not more rigorously investigated. Gene, according to first DPD reports , the rifle was found on the "fifth" floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Gene Kelly asked whether it was thought a shot from the west 5th floor was possible. This is my old model of the Plaza. I am in the process of completely rebuilding the model. However the essential dimensions are accurate. The first car is at 223/4 and the second car is at 312/3. Without hanging out the window, I am not sure at 223/4 it is a possible shot. At 312/3 it might be possible, but it looks like a very difficult shot. As can be seen the south wall is by far the better wall. The south west window was open throughout the assassination and it provides an excellent opportunity. From the TSBD:- Looking Back to the TSBD:- James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hocking Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 James, That is a nice mockup of the buildings and Elm St. Can you extend a straight line following the West wall of the TSBD out across Elm St? This would show when the Limo would first become visible to anyone looking out an upper floor window on the West side. It would also be interesting to see the positions of TUM and DCM on your mockup. What plat are you using for your measurements? Looks like you have put quite a bit of time into this. Would like to see more as your work progresses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Richard, Thanks for the comments. I used the Dealey Plaza Renovation Plat. That allowed me to have a North Plaza as well as a complete North and South Plaza. The North Plaza was used for my work on the Connally trajectory analysis. The red line running from the TSBD west all is 5ft wide The blue line is 28 ft long. So at 223/4 the car is 33ft from the side of the west wall. James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hocking Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Thanks for the visual update, James. FWIW, I also get a distance of 33' West of the West Wall for Z224 using Don Roberdeau's map. Here are some other reference points using that same map. All measurements are West of the West wall of the TSBD. Z224 ~ 33' Mary Moorman on S. Curb of Elm ~ 63' TUM on N sidewalk of Elm ~ 73' Z313 ~ 86' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hocking Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 David, found this photo just recently, showing some more detail on the trees near the SW corner of the TSBD. Credit Robin Unger for a still frame from the Lost Tapes DVD. It was taken on 11/23/63. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20949 Since this thread should concentrate on OSWALD LEAVING THE TSBD, I started a thread about potential trajectories and WCD 298 DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 "There was a guy in the doorway and I asked him for a phone,... He didn't appear stressed." - Pierce Allman See interview in Daily Mail - 11/22/63 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hocking Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) This is a follow-up to a question raised earlier in this thread concerning the Dr. Pepper bottle Inspector Sawyer is holding in the photo below. Could this bottle be the same bottle seen on the top step NW corner of the entrance in 4 other photos taken by William Allen? The answer lies in the sequence of the photos. We know that the bottle on the step appears in two photos taken by Allen during the 12:40 – 1:00 time range. Around 1:00 pm, Larry Florer is arrested on the street and taken to the Sheriff’s office. Allen walks over to the office and takes 6 pictures of Florer in custody. After several minutes in the office, Allen leaves and begins walking North on Houston Street back towards the TSBD. As he approaches, he takes two photos of the building. The next photo on the Allen Contact Sheet is the photo showing Sawyer on the steps with the Dr. Pepper bottle and a cigarette. The very next photo after that shows the 3 tramps being escorted in front of the TSBD. We know the tramps photo is taken around, or just after 2 pm. So, being sandwiched between the Florer photos and the Tramps photos places the Sawyer photo somewhere in the 1:15 – 2:00 time period. The Dr. Pepper bottle Sawyer is holding is not the same bottle seen on the top step in the other Allen photos. From a logical standpoint, it makes sense. When Inspector Sawyer arrived at the TSBD, in the immediate aftermath of the shooting, he became a very busy man. After going up to the 4th floor, taking a quick look, and coming back down to the entrance, he setup a command post. Numerous witnesses and suspects were arriving to be interviewed or give statements. These included Howard Brennan, Amos Euins, Charles Brehm, Arnold Rowland and wife, Robert Edwards, Larry Florer, and others. It seems unlikely Sawyer would have taken a cigarette and Dr. Pepper break during this hectic period when the assassin was also potentially in the building. Sawyer was out front of the TSBD until 4 pm. It seems reasonable that he would have taken a break later in the afternoon after the building had been cleared and the witnesses and suspects delivered to Decker and Fritz’s offices. So, for anyone keeping score, there was one Dr. Pepper bottle allegedly found on the 6th floor (with photos showing Johnson bringing it out front), another bottle left on the top step in the NW corner of the entrance, and a third bottle being held by Inspector Sawyer in the Allen photo. edited for syntax. Edited January 10, 2014 by Richard Hocking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 So what soda.bottles are in evidence today? None. What does that mean? BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Davies Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Someone used them for target practice to site in the missing Mauser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 So what soda.bottles are in evidence today? None. What does that mean? BK The bad guys took 'em back for the deposit? --Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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