Oswald Leaving TSBD?

[Bill Miller]

11 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I don't understand what the coaching you talk about in your post has to do with a (hypothetical) coaching to say 3 to 4 minutes instead of 20 to 30 seconds.

Shelley's initial descriptions of the events and its timing falls within the time frame of the first 30 seconds. The final statement of Shelley about the timing of when he saw Truly and Baker about to enter the building mirrored the previous timing of the event. The one misstatement between those Commission responses does not. Not difficult at all for me to understand.

[Robert Prudhomme]

Do you believe, Bill, that Lovelady and Shelley were correct when they both testified to the Warren Commission that they did not leave the steps of the TSBD until Gloria Calvery had returned to the steps of the TSBD and had engaged Lovelady and Shelley in what can only be described as a fairly involved conversation?

 

[Robin Unger]

Lee Forman photo's

 

[Robin Unger]

[Robin Unger]

13 hours ago, James R Gordon said:

Thanks Robin,

Do we have any kind of time stamp for this image? I know Lovelady and Shelly are not insight at this point, but they are out of picture and making their way along Elm.

It would be helpful to know approximately when this image was taken.

James

James

This wiegman frame shows camera cars1 & 2

Camera car (2) which we see in Couch and Darnell

This is was what happening on the grassy knoll as camera car (2) continued in it's way down Elm st

 

 

Wiegman filming Officer Haygood and camera cars (1) & (2)

Edited January 2, 2017 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

This YouTube video was the source for the Couch frames in my image galleries.

It's a nice clear copy.

 

[Robin Unger]

Edited:

Edited January 3, 2017 by Robin Unger

[Robert Prudhomme]

On 01/01/2017 at 9:51 AM, James R Gordon said:

Thanks Robin,

Do we have any kind of time stamp for this image? I know Lovelady and Shelly are not insight at this point, but they are out of picture and making their way along Elm.

It would be helpful to know approximately when this image was taken.

James

"....but they are out of picture and making their way along Elm....."

I'm sorry James but, I think there is about as much conclusive evidence that we can see Shelley and Lovelady "making their way along Elm" as there is that proves Prayer Man is Oswald.

Are we not employing a double standard here by assuming we can see Shelley and Lovelady in a poor quality grainy film?

[Bill Miller]

9 hours ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

Do you believe, Bill, that Lovelady and Shelley were correct when they both testified to the Warren Commission that they did not leave the steps of the TSBD until Gloria Calvery had returned to the steps of the TSBD and had engaged Lovelady and Shelley in what can only be described as a fairly involved conversation?

Cite and quote the source for your position as that is not what I have read - and I have been quite thorough by quoting the witnesses in my response .... you should be able to extend the same courtesy.

[Bill Miller]

Interesting that when Baker reaches the curb of the extension so to cross the street that within one second the camera pans to the left exposing that the space between the two road signs are void of the line of people that were present when the shots had been fired.

Edited January 2, 2017 by Bill Miller

[Robert Prudhomme]

On 31/12/2016 at 1:54 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

[Robert Prudhomme]

22 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

Cite and quote the source for your position as that is not what I have read - and I have been quite thorough by quoting the witnesses in my response .... you should be able to extend the same courtesy.

Cite and quote it yourself, Bill. You don't give orders to people around here, do you follow me?

We have been over Shelley's and Lovelady's testimonies so many times, we have almost worn out the witness web page. I don't know what testimonies you have been reading but the ones we have all read here clearly have S&L stating they did NOT leave the steps until Gloria Calvery arrived at the steps.

What is your agenda here, Bill? The rest of us have been discussing you amongst ourselves, and the general conclusion is you seem to be here purposely wasting everyone's time. Is that what you are up to?

HAVE YOU REALLY NOT SEEN THE DOZEN OR SO TIMES I HAVE POSTED THE TESTIMONY OF S&L STATING THEY DID NOT LEAVE THE STEPS UNTIL GLORIA CALVERY ARRIVED AT THE STEPS?

Just for you, one LAST time, here is the relevant excerpt from the WC testimony of Bill Lovelady. Please read it and commit it to memory, as I will not post it again for you:

" Mr. BALL - You heard the shots. And how long after that was it before Gloria Calvary came up? 
Mr. LOVELADY - Oh, approximately 3 minutes, I would say. 
Mr. BALL - Three minutes is a long time. 
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, it's---I say approximately; I can't say because I don't have a watch; it could. 
Mr. BALL - Had people started to run? 
Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I couldn't say because she came up to us and we was talking to her, wasn't looking that direction at that time, but when we came off the steps--see, that entrance, you have a blind side when you go down the steps. 
Mr. BALL - Right after you talked to Gloria, did you leave the steps and go toward the tracks? 
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes."

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/wit.htm

I've even posted the link for you, Bill, so you can go look things up for yourself.

[Guest]

Well said Bob, enough is enough.

Lovelady and Shelley lied to the WC.

[Bill Miller]

5 hours ago, Bart Kamp said:

Well said Bob, enough is enough.

Lovelady and Shelley lied to the WC.

 

   Yes - well said. Prudhomme has Shelley and Lovelady still on the steps 3 minutes after the shots and not having left them at a time you have Shelley and Lovelady off of them and being out in the PLaza for 4 minutes before seeing Truly and Lovelady entering the building. Very Nice!

 

None of you have given a rational explanation why Shelley or Lovelady  would say they saw Baker and Truly about to enter the TSBD when they got to the Island/Divider and looked back - all before ever going to the RR Yard if they were to then say they didn't see Gloria, Baker, or Truly until 4 minutes after the shooting. To accept your position in light of your being so big on the Darnell film and what it is alleged to show - are we to believe that Baker sprinted across the street and waited four minutes before going up the stairs to enter the TSBD - is that your story?  I must mention this because while you mention the Newman's correctly other times - you mistakenly called them the Wiegman's once. Would that then be grounds to rule out a slip-up on your part and go straight to claiming you had lied .... that would seem rather baseless would it not. 

Where my criticism lies with you is that Shelley and Lovelady laid out the chain of events as they unfolded. That chain of events according to you is caught on film as Patrolman Baker crosses the Elm Street extension with the running woman seen to the left and hurrying behind, and Truly turning towards the stairs to follow Baker as the running woman passes by. Shelley and Lovelady don't say they saw Truly and Baker climbing the stairs when they reached the Island and looked back, but rather they were seen at the top of the stairs and about to enter the building. Those statements are supported by the timing of the events as caught on Darnell's film.

What you have chosen to do is then take the latter erred timing estimate of 4 minutes for seeing Baker and Truly entering the building and make that fit your theory for a late arrival for Patrolman Baker entering the building. That means that Darnell filmed Baker racing across the street within 20 seconds or so following the shooting to then wait at the stairs for almost 4 minutes before climbing them and entering the building. That rates right up there with the Greer shooting JFK claim. It's preposterous and deserves all the criticism it will surely get.

Edited January 2, 2017 by Bill Miller

[Bill Miller]

4 hours ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/wit.htm

 

I've even posted the link for you, Bill, so you can go look things up for yourself.

You have left out testimony given that addresses when Calvery met up with BL and BS in time for them to look back and see Truly and Baker at the top of the stairs and about to enter the building.