Oswald Leaving TSBD?

[Brad Milch]

Hi, Vanessa

I like reading a woman's perspective on this case. There's far too few ladies sharing their views online IMHO. Women are extremely perceptive. I once gave a co-worker a ride to the bus stop from work & my ex smelled her perfume in my car weeks after smoking & hauling stuff around in it. To this day I think she believes I was guilty of something.

Fellas probably don't like to admit it, but it's the ladies that do most of the hunting in the lion pride, not the Bert Lahr types (lol). It's been said that if the lion pride had to depend on the lion for food, they'd all starve.

Does LHO being in the entranceway of the TSBD tell you he was innocent of the assassination or was working in concert with someone else using his rifle upstairs in the TSBD? Could that someone be the person LHO was allegedly spying on? What does LHO's presence outside the TSBD tell you if he indeed was Prayer Man?

Could a woman have been involved in the JFK ambush? I read way back some interesting opinions that Beatrice Hestor was supposedly the 'bag lady' that hid the weapon used to shoot JFK from the pergola shelter or front area near it in her large purse (or shopping bag) while her hubby distracted Dave Wiegman by running to the Pergola & peering out one of the slots. I believe it was Inspector Holmes remarking that he thought he saw Beatrice's hubby or someone handing her a weapon that she stuffed in her large purse as he watched through his binoculars that triggered that line of suspicion. The Hestors were mentioned in initial radio broadcasts as being suspicious characters.

I also read some comments about the black ladies visible in the Croft Elm St. Betzner3 & Altegns6 photos being male members of an anti-Castro operation dressed in drag. Someone matched their faces. Each & every one of those women vanished after the attack on JFK. I believe one of them is the woman seen running after DPD Officer Baker in the Gerda Dunckel visual loop posted earlier in this thread in several places.

Best,

Brad Milch

PS: If RoKC is the karate club, will you go easy on me if ever mad at me? I bruise & bleed way too easily (sigh)...

PSPS to Mark & Robert: The toughest truck I ever saw was my Grandpa's '40's something Chevy. He used to start it by beating on the carb with a 'monkey wrench' while my Grandma worked the ignition....

Edited March 29, 2015 by Brad Milch

[Brad Milch]

Howdy, Cliff:

Hey, your comment disappeared!

I got kicked in the shin by a rather large country gal on the school bus back around the 7th grade or so. I'm 62 now & it's still sore. Call it as you like but if I was playing football against that gal & she wanted the football, I'd give it to her in a second. No questions asked. I might even block for her (LOL).

BM

Edited March 28, 2015 by Brad Milch

[Thomas Graves]

[...]

What does LHO's presence outside the TSBD tell you if he indeed was Prayer Man?

[...]

That he shot JFK with a silenced rifle from the TSBD steps?

Sorry, I couldn't help it.

--Tommy

[Brad Milch]

Howdy Randy & Thomas:

I agree that the evidence needs to be re-examined by new technology, particularly the films & photos.

High profile murder trials have taught us a lesson on how seemingly good, rock solid, airtight evidence pointing to an accused's guilt can get tossed out the window by a jury that didn't trust the collectors & handlers of that evidence.

When convicted felons are found to be innocent of the crimes they were accused of, the right thing to do is overturn their conviction & help them get the part of their lives they lost while in prison restored. Lee Oswald's life was stolen from him & cannot be restored, but his family's honor can be restored.

Most people with an interest in this case lean towards 'doing the right thing' IMHO. That's what brings people to EF in the 1st place; determining what is the right thing when the possibility LHO was innocent or involved in the JFK ambush in a lesser capacity than a shooter hangs over the assassination like a cloud. The evidence in the case can take a person in either direction.

This thread I would classify as 'super important'. The constructors of the info contained within this thread are deserving of the Nobel Peace prize IMHO.

BM

Edited March 29, 2015 by Brad Milch

[Jon G. Tidd]

I'm late to the discussion here, so perhaps my question has already been answered.

Is there any indication that [a] Oswald rolled up his shirt sleeves at work on November 22, or that Oswald had a habit of rolling up his shirt sleeves?

I ask because PM appears to have rolled up long shirt sleeves to above his elbows. Either that, or he appears to be wearing a short-sleeve shirt.

[Thomas Graves]

I'm late to the discussion here, so perhaps my question has already been answered.

Is there any indication that [a] Oswald rolled up his shirt sleeves at work on November 22, or that Oswald had a habit of rolling up his shirt sleeves?

I ask because PM appears to have rolled up long shirt sleeves to above his elbows. Either that, or he appears to be wearing a short-sleeve shirt.

Dear Mr. Tidd,

I respectfully disagree.

I think Prayer Man is wearing a long sleeved shirt , not rolled up, and that there is sunlight on his right forearm, making the sleeve on his right forearm look lighter than it really was in comparrison to the rest of his shirt which is in the shade. Note that this lighter color starts right at his right elbow, not a little bit below it which would be the case if the sleeve were rolled up or if he were wearing a short sleeved shirt. I think you can even make out where the right sleeve ends a little short of Prayer Man's right wrist, and the "plaid" pattern on the forearm part of the sleeve.

I'm starting to think that Prayer Man was Billy Lovelady after all, and that Altgens 6 "Doorman" and Weigman's "Prayer Man" were one and the same person -- Lovelady.

But the question remains: Where is Bill Shelley in either Altgens 6 or Weigman?

--Tommy

Edited March 29, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Brad Milch]

Hi Jon,

Back in my office work days I used to roll my sleeves up & it caused a permanent crease in the shirt's arm sleeves. Ditto for warehouse type work. The more expensive men's shirts I wore handled that abuse a lot better than the cheaper men's shirts did but there'd still be a slight visible crease in the sleeves. No amount of ironing or visits to the dry cleaner's could get the crease out of either arm. I had to constantly buy new shirts.

The photo analysis in this thread is outstanding. I've looked at William Allen photos for 30 years or so & never noticed a Dr. Pepper bottle in the corner of the TSBD entrance. Perhaps good visuals analysts can spot such a crease in LHO's meager clothing inventory? (had some women I've known been the accused assassin, they'd be looking at a couple hundred pair of different colored shoes, belts, purses & other ladies wear items [LOL])

BTW, I share your opinion on the trustworthiness of JFK ambush visuals. I don't trust any of it that flowed into DPD, Federal agencies & MSM hands. If PM's presence was removed or disguised in some of the visuals, it's nothing short of a miracle that his image survived in Darnell, Couch & Wiegman.

Best,

Brad Milch

edited to correct typos I didn't spot earlier

Edited March 30, 2015 by Brad Milch

[Thomas Graves]

I'm late to the discussion here, so perhaps my question has already been answered.

Is there any indication that [a] Oswald rolled up his shirt sleeves at work on November 22, or that Oswald had a habit of rolling up his shirt sleeves?

I ask because PM appears to have rolled up long shirt sleeves to above his elbows. Either that, or he appears to be wearing a short-sleeve shirt.

Dear Mr. Tidd,

I respectfully disagree.

I think Prayer Man is wearing a long sleeved shirt , not rolled up, and that there is sunlight on his right forearm (which is sticking out a bit from his body), making the sleeve on his right forearm look lighter than it really was in comparison to the rest of his shirt which is in the shade. Note that this lighter color starts right at his right elbow, not a little bit below it which would be the case if the sleeve were rolled up or if he were wearing a short sleeved shirt. Lovelady's long sleeved, mostly-red "plaid" shirt was of fairly heavy material like flannel, so it would have been difficult for him to roll it up that far. I think you can even make out where the right sleeve ends a little short of Prayer Man's right wrist, and the "plaid" pattern on the forearm part of the sleeve.

I'm starting to think that Prayer Man was Billy Lovelady after all, and that Altgens 6 "Doorman" and Weigman's "Prayer Man" were one and the same person -- Lovelady.

But the question remains: Where is Bill Shelley in either Altgens 6 or Weigman?

--Tommy

edited and bumped

Edited March 29, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Jon G. Tidd]

Tommy,

Do you not think P.M.'s right forearm and hand are bare?

[Thomas Graves]

Tommy,

Do you not think P.M.'s right forearm and hand are bare?

Dear Jon,

Of course his hand is bare, as is his wrist.

But not his forearm.

IMHO, the sleeve stops short of his wrist. (Please see my "analysis" and the Weigman frame I'm talking about here in post # 1703, this thread.)

--Tommy .

PS The fact that Prayer Man is wearing a long sleeved shirt that is not rolled up is even more evident in this photo:

(Bear in mind that some sunlight is hitting his right arm because he's holding it out a bit, in front of his body. Note that the sunlight is also hitting his side, below his right arm.)

Edited March 29, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Ray Mitcham]

I'm late to the discussion here, so perhaps my question has already been answered.

Is there any indication that [a] Oswald rolled up his shirt sleeves at work on November 22, or that Oswald had a habit of rolling up his shirt sleeves?

I ask because PM appears to have rolled up long shirt sleeves to above his elbows. Either that, or he appears to be wearing a short-sleeve shirt.

Dear Mr. Tidd,

I respectfully disagree.

I think Prayer Man is wearing a long sleeved shirt , not rolled up, and that there is sunlight on his right forearm, making the sleeve on his right forearm look lighter than it really was in comparrison to the rest of his shirt which is in the shade. Note that this lighter color starts right at his right elbow, not a little bit below it which would be the case if the sleeve were rolled up or if he were wearing a short sleeved shirt. I think you can even make out where the right sleeve ends a little short of Prayer Man's right wrist, and the "plaid" pattern on the forearm part of the sleeve.

I'm starting to think that Prayer Man was Billy Lovelady after all, and that Altgens 6 "Doorman" and Weigman's "Prayer Man" were one and the same person -- Lovelady.

But the question remains: Where is Bill Shelley in either Altgens 6 or Weigman?

--Tommy

I disagree with Tommy's view that Prayerman's arm is in sunshine. I think it is totally in shadow. Line up the shadows of the people in the foreground and then see how the shadow of the left doorway would put Prayerman totally in shadow.

IMO.

[Robert Prudhomme]

This is from a post at the ROKC, discussing PM's shirt sleeves (or lack of), by an ROKC member by the name of Stan Dane.

"Since we're looking at pictures and trying to figure out what we're seeing, I took the best Darnell image (Sean Murphy Post 647) and tweaked the contrast using GIMP 2.8 up to about 60%, the point where it looked the crispest to my eye.

I then zoomed the original 300%, cropped it, made a copy and used PowerPoint, adjusted the contrast and the sharpness. I then zoomed the GIMP image and cropped it as well. Placed all three side-by-side for comparison.

I think Oswald's arms are bare in these images."

Edited March 30, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme

[Thomas Graves]

Tommy,

Do you not think P.M.'s right forearm and hand are bare?

Dear Jon,

Of course his hand is bare, as is his wrist.

But not his forearm.

IMHO, the sleeve stops short of his wrist. (Please see my "analysis" and the Weigman frame I'm talking about here in post # 1703, this thread.)

--Tommy .

PS The fact that Prayer Man is wearing a long sleeved shirt that is not rolled up is even more evident in this photo:

(Bear in mind that some sunlight is hitting his right arm because he's holding it out a bit, in front of his body. Note that the sunlight is also hitting his side, below his right arm.)

Unless that's Lovelady and he's wearing his short sleeved, red and white, vertically-striped shirt, it's hard for me to imagine Oswald (or Lovelady for that matter) rolling his the sleeves of his long sleeved shirt up and standing there in the shade like that on a cool, windy day.

--Tommy

Edited March 30, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

This is from a post at the ROKC, discussing PM's shirt sleeves (or lack of), by an ROKC member by the name of Stan Dane.

"Since we're looking at pictures and trying to figure out what we're seeing, I took the best Darnell image (Sean Murphy Post 647) and tweaked the contrast using GIMP 2.8 up to about 60%, the point where it looked the crispest to my eye.

I then zoomed the original 300%, cropped it, made a copy and used PowerPoint, adjusted the contrast and the sharpness. I then zoomed the GIMP image and cropped it as well. Placed all three side-by-side for comparison.

I think Oswald's arms are bare in these images."

The only way I can agree with you is if Prayer Man had very hairy arms.

--Tommy

[James R Gordon]

Thomas,

This is very impressive, especially when using Powerpoint rather than Photoshop and/or AfterEffects. Well done!!!

Whoever this person, they clearly have a short sleeve shirt on.

Gimp 2.8 suggests this figure cannot be Oswald, the shirt is far too tidy and appears closed from about the upper chest.

An excellent piece of image adjustment.

James.