Thomas Graves Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Has anyone ever been able to find out how tall Bill Shelley was? Hi Bob!, Just curious -- What does it matter? If it's really important, I might be able to find out for you... Your buddy, -- Tommy Let me guess. You don't think that's Shelly walking with Lovelady, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) No, I don't believe that is Shelley and Lovelady. From every photo I have seen of Shelley, he appears to be a rather small man. Lovelady was 5'8" tall, and the man purported to be Shelley appears to be taller than the man purported to be Lovelady. Edited October 21, 2016 by Robert Prudhomme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 (edited) No, I don't believe that is Shelley and Lovelady. From every photo I have seen of Shelley, he appears to be a rather small man. Lovelady was 5'8" tall, and the man purported to be Shelley appears to be taller than the man purported to be Lovelady. Howdy, Bob! Well. if Shelley was so much taller than Lovelady, I don't suppose he could have been walking in the street while Lovelady was walking on the sidewalk? Regardless, do you think Lovelady's distinctive shirt and bald spot on the top / rear of his head were photoshopped in Gerda's GIF, or maybe even "kinda fudged in" by the bad guys back in '63 - '64? -- Tommy Edited October 22, 2016 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 (edited) Bart, Didn't you already post these images? -- Tommy Never mind, I see they are larger, and we can now make out the plaid pattern on LL's shirt. And the bald spot on top of his head!!! Doesn't the Bill Shelley character in Bart's photo appear to be wearing a hat? I don't believe I've ever seen a photo of Shelley wearing a hat. P.S. Tommy, do you believe that Lovelady is also crossing the road at an angle, like Shelley is? I thought that he continued on a straight course and that is how we can see that Shelley veered to the left. (BTW, I believe that Lovelady is walking right next to the sidewalk, and takes one step up on it and then immediately down off of it again. Because his head pops up for just that moment.) A hat? Nope. Well that's a neat trick. Stop the motion of the video and make the picture so clear that we can see one guy's bald spot and the other guy's hat. Conclude that one guy has a bald spot. Then revert to the blurry video running at a high speed where we can see neither the bald spot nor the hat. Conclude that the other guy doesn't have a hat. Talk about a double standard! P.S. I'm not saying that the Shelley character definitely has a hat. I'm saying that you're using an unfair method to prove what you believe. Edited October 22, 2016 by Sandy Larsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 (edited) Bart, Didn't you already post these images? -- Tommy Never mind, I see they are larger, and we can now make out the plaid pattern on LL's shirt. And the bald spot on top of his head!!! Doesn't the Bill Shelley character in Bart's photo appear to be wearing a hat? I don't believe I've ever seen a photo of Shelley wearing a hat. P.S. Tommy, do you believe that Lovelady is also crossing the road at an angle, like Shelley is? I thought that he continued on a straight course and that is how we can see that Shelley veered to the left. (BTW, I believe that Lovelady is walking right next to the sidewalk, and takes one step up on it and then immediately down off of it again. Because his head pops up for just that moment.) A hat? Nope. Well that's a neat trick. Stop the motion of the video and make the picture so clear that we can see one guy's bald spot and the other guy's hat. Conclude that one guy has a bald spot. Then revert to the blurry video running at a high speed where we can see neither the bald spot nor the hat. Conclude that the other guy doesn't have a hat. Talk about a double standard! P.S. I'm not saying that the Shelley character definitely has a hat. I'm saying that you're using an unfair method to prove what you believe. Anyone who thinks Shelley is wearing a hat is mistaking his exaggerated Edd "Kookie" Byrnes hairstyle for a hat. -- Tommy PS It's interesting how none of the detractors want to comment on Lovelady's distinctive shirt. Edited October 22, 2016 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Doesn't the Bill Shelley character in Bart's photo appear to be wearing a hat? I don't believe I've ever seen a photo of Shelley wearing a hat. P.S. Tommy, do you believe that Lovelady is also crossing the road at an angle, like Shelley is? I thought that he continued on a straight course and that is how we can see that Shelley veered to the left. (BTW, I believe that Lovelady is walking right next to the sidewalk, and takes one step up on it and then immediately down off of it again. Because his head pops up for just that moment.) A hat? Nope. Well that's a neat trick. Stop the motion of the video and make the picture so clear that we can see one guy's bald spot and the other guy's hat. Conclude that one guy has a bald spot. Then revert to the blurry video running at a high speed where we can see neither the bald spot nor the hat. Conclude that the other guy doesn't have a hat. Talk about a double standard! P.S. I'm not saying that the Shelley character definitely has a hat. I'm saying that you're using an unfair method to prove what you believe. Anyone who thinks Shelley is wearing a hat is mistaking his exaggerated Edd "Kookie" Byrnes hairstyle for a hat. -- Tommy PS It's interesting how none of the detractors want to comment on Lovelady's distinctive shirt. Detractors? I thought that most interested people consider this pair to be Lovelady and Shelley. That's what I believe. But the "hat" bothers me a little. There appears to be a rim of a hat extending from the back of Shelley's head. Pompadours don't have a rim in back. Not even Kookie's does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Bart, Didn't you already post these images? -- Tommy Never mind, I see they are larger, and we can now make out the plaid pattern on LL's shirt. And the bald spot on top of his head!!! Doesn't the Bill Shelley character in Bart's photo appear to be wearing a hat? I don't believe I've ever seen a photo of Shelley wearing a hat. P.S. Tommy, do you believe that Lovelady is also crossing the road at an angle, like Shelley is? I thought that he continued on a straight course and that is how we can see that Shelley veered to the left. (BTW, I believe that Lovelady is walking right next to the sidewalk, and takes one step up on it and then immediately down off of it again. Because his head pops up for just that moment.) A hat? Nope. Well that's a neat trick. Stop the motion of the video and make the picture so clear that we can see one guy's bald spot and the other guy's hat. Conclude that one guy has a bald spot. Then revert to the blurry video running at a high speed where we can see neither the bald spot nor the hat. Conclude that the other guy doesn't have a hat. Talk about a double standard! P.S. I'm not saying that the Shelley character definitely has a hat. I'm saying that you're using an unfair method to prove what you believe. Do explain!!! Both videos are the Dunckel GIFS in slow motion and to me already showed Shelley and Lovelady in 2012. The still I have posted is from a completely different source, a print at Nat Arch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 (edited) The "hat" bothers me a little. There appears to be a rim of a hat extending from the back of Shelley's head. Pompadours don't have a rim in back. Not even Kookie's does. -- Sandy Larsen Sandy, If that's the case, shouldn't we see a brim in the front, as well? Or do you think he's wearing a baseball cap backwards, like Cheap Trick? Gerda Dunckel gif https://youtu.be/OL1PrKDumd4 -- Tommy Edited October 22, 2016 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 The "hat" bothers me a little. There appears to be a rim of a hat extending from the back of Shelley's head. Pompadours don't have a rim in back. Not even Kookie's does. -- Sandy Larsen Sandy, If that's the case, shouldn't we see a brim in the front, as well? Or do you think he's wearing a baseball cap backwards, like Cheap Trick? Gerda Dunckel gif https://youtu.be/OL1PrKDumd4 -- Tommy Tommy, The slo-mo GIF you posted convinces me that the brim on the back of Shelley's head is nothing more than noise in the image. Thank goodness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 (edited) Doesn't the Bill Shelley character in Bart's photo appear to be wearing a hat? I don't believe I've ever seen a photo of Shelley wearing a hat. P.S. Tommy, do you believe that Lovelady is also crossing the road at an angle, like Shelley is? I thought that he continued on a straight course and that is how we can see that Shelley veered to the left. (BTW, I believe that Lovelady is walking right next to the sidewalk, and takes one step up on it and then immediately down off of it again. Because his head pops up for just that moment.) A hat? Nope. Well that's a neat trick. Stop the motion of the video and make the picture so clear that we can see one guy's bald spot and the other guy's hat. Conclude that one guy has a bald spot. Then revert to the blurry video running at a high speed where we can see neither the bald spot nor the hat. Conclude that the other guy doesn't have a hat. Talk about a double standard! P.S. I'm not saying that the Shelley character definitely has a hat. I'm saying that you're using an unfair method to prove what you believe. Do explain!!! Both videos are the Dunckel GIFS in slow motion and to me already showed Shelley and Lovelady in 2012. The still I have posted is from a completely different source, a print at Nat Arch. Hmmm... I guess I was tired or something when I saw the videos you posted. I believe I played only the fast one. Edited October 22, 2016 by Sandy Larsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 (edited) So, just how tall was Shelley? Edited October 22, 2016 by Robert Prudhomme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 (edited) Bill Shelley's height matters immensely, as the person purported to be Shelley walking down the Elm St. extension is clearly a bit taller than the 5'8" Bill Lovelady. If it turns out Shelley stood shorter than 5'8", it would cast serious doubt on these two being Shelley and Lovelady. And this, of course, brings us back to the question; when did Truly and Baker enter the TSBD? As Bill Shelley is practically the only witness who saw them going up the front steps of the TSBD, and claimed to have done so when he and Lovelady were twenty-five steps from the entrance, it is well worth determining if he and Lovelady actually walked down the Elm St. extension. Interestingly, everyone seems to believe the WC testimony of both Shelley and Lovelady to be partly true and partly untrue. It seems to be accepted as fact the S&L went down the Elm St. extension together to the rail yard while their testimony that they remained on the steps for 3-4 minutes, following the last shot, is believed to be untrue. Rather selective, I dare say. However, in Bill Shelley's affidavit of 22/11/63, he makes no mention of how long he stayed on the steps; only that he ran across the street to the corner of the park. No mention is made of walking with Lovelady down the Elm St. extension to the rail yard. He merely states that he went back inside the building and called his wife. Lovelady, in his 22/11/63 affidavit, does not mention leaving the steps. He merely states that "After it was over we went back into the building...." (underlining mine). Has it not occurred to any of you the walking of Shelley and Lovelady to the rail yard was a fabrication to 1) back up the Truly and Baker tale of an early entry into the TSBD and 2) discredit Victoria Adams' sighting of Shelley and Lovelady on the 1st floor by chronologically placing it several minutes after Truly and Baker supposedly ascended the steps to the 5th floor? Edited October 22, 2016 by Robert Prudhomme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 (edited) Bill Shelley's height matters immensely, as the person purported to be Shelley walking down the Elm St. extension is clearly a bit taller than the 5'8" Bill Lovelady. If it turns out Shelley stood shorter than 5'8", it would cast serious doubt on these two being Shelley and Lovelady. And this, of course, brings us back to the question; when did Truly and Baker enter the TSBD? As Bill Shelley is practically the only witness who saw them going up the front steps of the TSBD, and claimed to have done so when he and Lovelady were twenty-five steps from the entrance, it is well worth determining if he and Lovelady actually walked down the Elm St. extension. Interestingly, everyone seems to believe the WC testimony of both Shelley and Lovelady to be partly true and partly untrue. It seems to be accepted as fact the S&L went down the Elm St. extension together to the rail yard while their testimony that they remained on the steps for 3-4 minutes, following the last shot, is believed to be untrue. Rather selective, I dare say. However, in Bill Shelley's affidavit of 22/11/63, he makes no mention of how long he stayed on the steps; only that he ran across the street to the corner of the park. No mention is made of walking with Lovelady down the Elm St. extension to the rail yard. He merely states that he went back inside the building and called his wife. Lovelady, in his 22/11/63 affidavit, does not mention leaving the steps. He merely states that "After it was over we went back into the building...." (underlining mine). Has it not occurred to any of you the walking of Shelley and Lovelady to the rail yard was a fabrication to 1) back up the Truly and Baker tale of an early entry into the TSBD and 2) discredit Victoria Adams' sighting of Shelley and Lovelady on the 1st floor by chronologically placing it several minutes after Truly and Baker supposedly ascended the steps to the 5th floor? Howdy, Bob! Who the heck told you Lovelady was 5' 8" ? Buell Wesley Frazier told Gary Mack that Lovelady was only about 5' 4". Gary: Lee was about 5’9” or so [5' 9.5"]. How tall was Billy [Lovelady]? Buell: I don’t actually know how tall he was, but I would probably say Billy was probably maybe in the 5’2”/5’3” area. And I’m not sure about whether that’s correct or not, but I… maybe 5’4” at the most probably. http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?topic=5647.125;wap2 While we're at it, Bob, would you like to comment on the distinctive shirt Lovelady's wearing in the photos Bart posted, above? Or do you think that guy isn't Lovelady at all, but Ralph Cinque's / Jim Fetzer's "Neanderthal Man," instead (who is visible blowing cigarette smoke out of his mouth on the front steps of the TSBD several minutes after the assassination in the Hughes and Martin films, and also visible sitting in a chair in the police department, watching them bring Oswald in right past him). And that it's just a coincidence that Lovelady and "Neanderthal Man" were wearing the same exact shirt? LOL ! -- Tommy Edited October 23, 2016 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Bill Shelley's height matters immensely, as the person purported to be Shelley walking down the Elm St. extension is clearly a bit taller than the 5'8" Bill Lovelady. If it turns out Shelley stood shorter than 5'8", it would cast serious doubt on these two being Shelley and Lovelady. And this, of course, brings us back to the question; when did Truly and Baker enter the TSBD? As Bill Shelley is practically the only witness who saw them going up the front steps of the TSBD, and claimed to have done so when he and Lovelady were twenty-five steps from the entrance, it is well worth determining if he and Lovelady actually walked down the Elm St. extension. Interestingly, everyone seems to believe the WC testimony of both Shelley and Lovelady to be partly true and partly untrue. It seems to be accepted as fact the S&L went down the Elm St. extension together to the rail yard while their testimony that they remained on the steps for 3-4 minutes, following the last shot, is believed to be untrue. Rather selective, I dare say. However, in Bill Shelley's affidavit of 22/11/63, he makes no mention of how long he stayed on the steps; only that he ran across the street to the corner of the park. No mention is made of walking with Lovelady down the Elm St. extension to the rail yard. He merely states that he went back inside the building and called his wife. Lovelady, in his 22/11/63 affidavit, does not mention leaving the steps. He merely states that "After it was over we went back into the building...." (underlining mine). Has it not occurred to any of you the walking of Shelley and Lovelady to the rail yard was a fabrication to 1) back up the Truly and Baker tale of an early entry into the TSBD and 2) discredit Victoria Adams' sighting of Shelley and Lovelady on the 1st floor by chronologically placing it several minutes after Truly and Baker supposedly ascended the steps to the 5th floor? Howdy, Bob! Who the heck told you Lovelady was 5' 8" ? Buell Wesley Frazier told Gary Mack that Lovelady was only about 5' 4". Gary: Lee was about 5’9” or so [5' 9.5"]. How tall was Billy [Lovelady]? Buell: I don’t actually know how tall he was, but I would probably say Billy was probably maybe in the 5’2”/5’3” area. And I’m not sure about whether that’s correct or not, but I… maybe 5’4” at the most probably. http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?topic=5647.125;wap2 While we're at it, Bob, would you like to comment on the distinctive shirt Lovelady's wearing in the photos Bart posted, above? Or do you think that guy isn't Lovelady at all, but Ralph Cinque's / Jim Fetzer's "Neanderthal Man," instead (who is visible blowing cigarette smoke out of his mouth on the front steps of the TSBD several minutes after the assassination in the Hughes and Martin films, and also visible sitting in a chair in the police department, watching them bring Oswald in right past him). And that it's just a coincidence that Lovelady and "Neanderthal Man" were wearing the same exact shirt? LOL ! -- Tommy Gary Mack was mistaken. We have been through all of this before, and I distinctly recall it being quite well established that Bill Lovelady was 5' 8" tall. I can't quite recall where that was found but, just for you, I will locate the source. Once again, just how tall was Bill Shelley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) RE: ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENTJOHN FITZGERALD KENNEDY,NOVEMBER 22,1963, DALLAS, TEXAS TSBD where he is employed. He stated he was wearing a read and white vertical striped shirt and blue-jeans. Lovelady stated his picture has appeared in several publications, which picture depicts him on the far left side of the front doorway to the TSBD. Lovelady was exhibited a picture appearing on Pages 4-5 of the magazine entitled, "Four Dark Days in History," copyright 1963 by Special Publications, Inc., 6627 Hollywood Boulevard, Los Angeles 28, California. He immediately identified the picture of the individual on the far left side of the doorway of the TSBD as being his photograph. He stated this same photograph, or one identical to it, has appeared in the Dallas Times Herald newspaper of November 23, 1963, and in the Cincinnati Inquirer, of December 3, 1963. He stated it also appeared in an edition of " The Saturday Evening Post," the date of which he does not know. Mr. Lovelady stated his close resemblance to Lee Harvey Oswald has become somewhat embarrassing. He stated his stepchildren, Timmy Ekstedt, age 6, and stepdaughter, Angela Ekstedt, age 4, were watching television shortly after the assassination at a time when Lee Harvey Oswald was shown while in custody of the Dallas Police Department and both of these children remarked that they thought their daddy was on television referring to his close resemblance to Lee Harvey Oswald. The following physical description and background information was obtained from interrogation and observation of Lovelady: Name: Billy Nolan Lovelady Race: White Sex: Male Born: 2/19/37, Myrtle Springs, Texas Height: 5'8" Weight: 170 Eyes: Green Hair: Brown, thin Build: Medium Complexion: Medium Residence: Apartment C, 7722 Hume Drive, Dallas, Texas, no telephone Business Address: Texas School Book Depository Bldg., 411 Elm Street, Dallas, Texas, telephone RI 7-3521 Wife: Patricia Ruth Lovelady Children: Stepson, Timmy Ekstedt, age 6 Stepdaughter, Angela, age 4 Daughter, Sheryl Lovelady, age 14 months. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/cd457.htm Edited October 23, 2016 by Robert Prudhomme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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