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Oswald Leaving TSBD?


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On 31/12/2016 at 3:44 PM, Bill Miller said:

So this was just a 'filler' response?  

" I'm sorry but, I must have missed that memo. Would you mind terribly explaining how you reconciled their first day statements with their WC testimonies again? "

It might have been. What kind of punishment do I face for this faux pas?

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22 hours ago, Robin Unger said:

Shelley Testimony:  11/22/63

Shelley's first day account of where he ran into Gloria Calvery crying

Shelley_Calvery.jpg

Quite the glaring contradiction to his WC testimony, eh what?

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30 minutes ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

Quite the glaring contradiction to his WC testimony, eh what?

 

Yes Bob

I seemed to recall you said that you place more faith in the first day testimony 22/11/63 ?

 

This Testimony backs up the theory i put forward earlier, that Shelley ran into Gloria near the concrete island ?

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He might have, he might not have. That does not interest me nearly as much as this question; why would he and Lovelady change their stories so dramatically when they testified to the Warren Commission?

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2 minutes ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

He might have, he might not have. That does not interest me nearly as much as this question; why would he and Lovelady change their stories so dramatically when they testified to the Warren Commission?

 

That is a good question. ?

It interests me, because that goes to the heart of the " is the running woman seen in Darnell Gloria Calvery " issue

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Which, of course, brings us right back to the discussion Thomas and I are having regarding just who and where was the real Gloria Calvery?

"Something is rotten in the state of Denmark."  ~~Hamlet~~ by William Shakespeare

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While it is easy for us to speculate that Running Woman or a host of other women were Gloria Calvery, the fact remains there are three sworn statements given to the FBI by Karen Westbrook, Karan Hicks and Carol Reed stating that Gloria Calvery was one of a group of five women that also included Westbrook, Hicks and Reed, standing just east of the Stemmons Freeway sign.

Not only does the woman ID'ed as Calvery look nothing like the real Calvery, this woman remained on the grassy area next to the Stemmons sign long after Baker supposedly entered the TSBD; seriously bringing into question whether Running Woman could be Gloria Calvery.

Without the FBI statements of Hicks, Reed and Westbrook, I would write this off as a simple case of misidentification of Gloria Calvery.

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1 hour ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

Not only does the woman ID'ed as Calvery look nothing like the real Calvery, this woman remained on the grassy area next to the Stemmons sign long after Baker supposedly entered the TSBD; seriously bringing into question whether Running Woman could be Gloria Calvery.

Without the FBI statements of Hicks, Reed and Westbrook, I would write this off as a simple case of misidentification of Gloria Calvery.

The fact that the dark complected woman was with two other woman demonstrates that these friends that went out to the street together did not necessarily stand arm and arm. In fact, as the Bronson Photo shows - there was plenty of spacing between the Elm Street witnesses for about anyone to walk down to the curb and get in between any of them.

I am also surprised that you care at all what was written in the FBI statements because I thought you were one of those people who has held the position that any statements taken by the FBI were not to be accepted as accurate.

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Bill,

What I am about to post is extremely important. EVERYBODY please read it carefully... it is a very simple SMOKING GUN:

Yesterday I pointed out that Bill Shelley, in his WC testimony, said that it was 3 to 4 minutes after the shooting that Truly and Baker went into the TSBD. Which of course contradicts the official story, which is that they entered the TSBD 20 to 30 seconds after the shooting.

Mr. BALL - Do you have any idea how long it was from the time you heard those three sounds or three noises until you saw Truly and Baker going into the building?
Mr. SHELLEY - It would have to be 3 or 4 minutes I would say because this girl [Gloria Calvery] that ran back up there was down near where the car was when the President was hit.
Mr. BALL - She ran back up to the door and you had still remained standing there?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

Your excuse, Bill, was to say that Shelley got confused in making that 3 to 4 minute statement. That the correct timing was more like 20 to 30 seconds... what we see in the films.

Okay then, lets just see what Lovelady had to say about this event in his WC testimony:

Mr. BALL - You heard the shots. And how long after that was it before Gloria Calvary came up? 
Mr. LOVELADY - Oh, approximately 3 minutes, I would say
Mr. BALL - Three minutes is a long time. 
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, it's---I say approximately; I can't say because I don't have a watch; it could. 
Mr. BALL - Had people started to run? 
Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I couldn't say because she came up to us and we was talking to her, wasn't looking that direction at that time, but when we came off the steps--see, that entrance, you have a blind side when you go down the steps. 
Mr. BALL - Right after you talked to Gloria, did you leave the steps and go toward the tracks? 
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you run or walk?
Mr. LOVELADY. Medium trotting or fast walk.
Mr. BALL. A fast walk?
Mr. LOVELADY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. How did you happen to turn around and see Truly and the policeman go into the building?
Mr. LOVELADY. Somebody hollered and I looked.

 

Oh noooo!  Lovelady also said 3 minutes!

Hopefully, Bill, you're not going to try and convince us that both Shelley and Lovelady made the very same ridiculous error in the timing of this event. Are you?

The truth is:

This corroboration of testimony proves that Gloria Calvery arrived about 3 minutes after the shooting, and that Baker and Truly didn't enter the TSBD till shortly after that.

Either that or Shelley and Lovelady were coached what to say regarding this event, and the coaching -- which served to discredit Victoria Adam's damaging testimony -- accidentally contradicted the official Baker story.

Either way, the 2nd floor Baker/Oswald narrative is destroyed by this pair of testimonies. It's that simple, folks.

 

(I hope I haven't made a silly blunder here.)

Edited by Sandy Larsen
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3 hours ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

He might have, he might not have. That does not interest me nearly as much as this question; why would he and Lovelady change their stories so dramatically when they testified to the Warren Commission?

To discredit Victoria Adams' timing.

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22 hours ago, Robin Unger said:

5857a32c489f4_KarenWestbrookstatement3-1

 

5857a32051985_KaranHicksstatement3-20-64

 

5857a313c2c26_CarolReedstatement3-19-64_

 

 

5857a344b8d77_GloriaCalverystatment3-29-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think these girls all copied off one essay when they wrote their exams, Robin. They all wrote the same thing.

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22 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

The fact that the dark complected woman was with two other woman demonstrates that these friends that went out to the street together did not necessarily stand arm and arm. In fact, as the Bronson Photo shows - there was plenty of spacing between the Elm Street witnesses for about anyone to walk down to the curb and get in between any of them.

I am also surprised that you care at all what was written in the FBI statements because I thought you were one of those people who has held the position that any statements taken by the FBI were not to be accepted as accurate.

Whether these women were doing a group hug or standing with ten feet between each of them is irrelevant, Bill.

Read their FBI statements, which Robin has so graciously reproduced for us here. They obviously knew each other, and recognized themselves as a group, and this is reflected in their statements.

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