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Oswald Leaving TSBD?


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Bob

Yes, we need to compare the heights of Shelley and Lovelady.

also i need to see if there is a walking curb on the left side of the Elm st extension

higher than the roadway.

 

In Darnell the running woman gains height as she mounts the curb near the steps

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On 31/12/2016 at 1:54 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

Ignore the undeletable message above this.

Hard to see how there could be a curb (kerb?) on the left side, as there seem to be vehicles parked on either side of the Elm St. extension. Aren't they out in the middle of the extension?

Running Woman, OTOH, appears to be on the sidewalk in front of the TSBD.

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On 31/12/2016 at 1:54 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

Ignore the undeletable message above this.

Wow, I've never seen it from this angle before, Robin. Thanks for that.

So, "they" are way past the concrete island, and Baker hasn't even met Truly yet. Something stinks to high Heaven here.

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2 minutes ago, Robert Prudhomme said:
On 12/31/2016 at 5:24 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

Ignore the undeletable message above this.

Hard to see how there could be a curb (kerb?) on the left side, as there seem to be vehicles parked on either side of the Elm St. extension. Aren't they out in the middle of the extension?

Running Woman, OTOH, appears to be on the sidewalk in front of the TSBD.

Yes to my eyes they appear to be near the middle of the roadway, just covering all the bases, regarding Shelleys true height.

when compared to the man in the suit seen in Couch.

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19 hours ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

Cite and quote it yourself, Bill. You don't give orders to people around here, do you follow me?

I only pointed out once again that you cannot just tell someone your conclusion without detailing how you reached it. How else would one know if you have interpreted the witnesses statements correctly or not. Your misstatement that Shelley mentioned a 'concrete Island' is a prime example. Shelley mentioned the area between the two streets as the Island and/or a divider, and he referenced the 'concrete' as the location on the Island he was near when he looked back and saw Truly and Baker at the first step and about to enter the TSBD.

As far as citing your evidence ... why would someone need to be ordered to extend a courtesy that others freely give to them when stating their position. Hope you are now able to follow me.

 

 

Edited by Bill Miller
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On 31/12/2016 at 1:54 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

Ignore the Sandy Larsen intro above

Robin

" Mr. SHELLEY - We walked down the middle of the little street.
Mr. BALL - The dead-end street?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes. "

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21 hours ago, Robin Unger said:

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I don't think Mr. Miller quite understands the concrete island concept. The concrete actually stopped just to the east of that big tree in late 1963. The concrete was added on either side of that tree as so many people were walking around it, the grass was being destroyed. You can see the difference in old and new concrete. As we have located them in the middle of the street and way west of the concrete island, I wonder how they could have been on the concrete island and looked back to see Baker and Truly "fixin' to get ready" to go up the stairs, as Baker and Truly hadn't even met when S&L were well past the island?

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Just now, Robert Prudhomme said:
On 12/31/2016 at 0:54 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

Ignore the Sandy Larsen intro above

Robin

" Mr. SHELLEY - We walked down the middle of the little street.
Mr. BALL - The dead-end street?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes. "

When they left the Island and walked to the RR Yard - they walked down the middle of the Elm Street extension.

Mr. SHELLEY - Gloria Calvary from South-Western Publishing Co. ran back up there crying and said "The President has been shot" and Billy Lovelady and myself took off across the street to that little, old island and we stopped there for a minute.

Mr. BALL - You went to the concrete between the two Elm Streets?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, where they split.


Mr. BALL - You went out there and then what did you do?
Mr. SHELLEY - Well, officers started running down to the railroad yards and Billy and I walked down that way.
Mr. BALL - How did you get down that way; what course did you take?
Mr. SHELLEY - We walked down the middle of the little street.

 

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On 31/12/2016 at 1:54 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

Ignore sandy Larsen intro above

 

Wait a minute Bill. Now we have to ignore the first day statement where Shelley ran across to the island and talked to Gloria Calvery there.

Will you please make up your mind which piece of evidence you plan to go with, as they all seem to contradict each other?

You can't simply cherry pick whatever evidence happens to work with your current theory.

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13 minutes ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

 

Wait a minute Bill. Now we have to ignore the first day statement where Shelley ran across to the island and talked to Gloria Calvery there.

Will you please make up your mind which piece of evidence you plan to go with, as they all seem to contradict each other?

You can't simply cherry pick whatever evidence happens to work with your current theory.

 

I have said all along that Shelley's comments are supported by the Darnell film if Bart is correct that it is Shelley and Lovelady moving between the cars parked on the Elm Street extension. That Shelley and Lovelady saw co-worker Gloria Calvery running up towards the TSBD crying as they stood on the steps and then they started moving away from the stairs and towards her. As they were crossing the street so to get to the Island, they met her in passing just prior to stepping up on the Island near the tree next to the concrete monument.

The difference between us is that I know that one's recall can be slightly off and still be true to the evidence whereas you think even the slightest error in someone's recall is a lie. My experience has been that in a stressful situation that involve surprise and shock - a witness will remember things in segments and his or her mind will fill in the blanks after the fact in an attempt to make sense of the things they remember. I don't know anyone, with the possible exception of yourself, that has never found out later that they had a detail wrong in that they were certain that had gotten right.

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On 31/12/2016 at 1:54 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

 

Ignore Sand Larsen intro above.

" I have said all along that Shelley's comments are supported by the Darnell film if Bart is correct that it is Shelley and Lovelady moving between the cars parked on the Elm Street extension"

That's a big IF, Bill. There is about as much evidence to support this as there is to support Prayer Man being Oswald. Let me know when they find some better video.

" That Shelley and Lovelady saw co-worker Gloria Calvery running up towards the TSBD crying as they stood on the steps and then they started moving away from the stairs and towards her."

Nope. This is contradicted by first day statements AND Warren Commission testimony. Remember, no cherry picking evidence to make a pet theory work.

"  As they were crossing the street so to get to the Island, they met her in passing just prior to stepping up on the Island near the tree next to the concrete monument."

Nope again. There is not one single thing in any of the statements or testimonies to support this. And, if there was, it would be contradicted by both Shelley's and Lovelady's testimony to the Warren Commission. Remember, cherrypicking ist verboten, ja?

" The difference between us is that I know that one's recall can be slightly off and still be true to the evidence whereas you think even the slightest error in someone's recall is a lie. My experience has been that in a stressful situation that involve surprise and shock - a witness will remember things in segments and his or her mind will fill in the blanks after the fact in an attempt to make sense of the things they remember. I don't know anyone, with the possible exception of yourself, that has never found out later that they had a detail wrong in that they were certain that had gotten right."

Please save your amateur psychological analysis for someone who is actually interested in reading it.

The saddest thing we see in the JFK research community is researchers who fall in love with a pet theory, and blind themselves to anything logical and rational as they are afraid it will threaten their pet theory. You yourself have criticised the Prayer man supporters for this, yet do not see it in yourself. It becomes necessary for them to cherry pick the pieces of evidence that support their pet theory, and reject all other evidence as

1) confused

2) mistaken

3) lying

4) misremembering (my personal favourite :) )

5) altered

6) the list goes on but I can't think of anything right now

 

 

 

 

Edited by Robert Prudhomme
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