Sandy Larsen Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 39 minutes ago, Michael Walton said: Where are these photos Sandy? Talking about them and describing them vs actually showing them are two different things. If you have a program that can do frame by frame of a GIF surely you can grab the photos and post them here too. Michael, I haven't set myself up for posting photos since PhotoBucket began charging for their service. Because I haven't been doing photographic work. Besides, you really need to single-step though the frames and see things moving in order to identify certain body parts. If you want I can e-mail you the animated gif file and tell you which frame number to look at to see Woman-In-White's leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrej Stancak Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Sandy: it is difficult to evaluate your comment on Lovelady being on a different step than shown in my example. In some stills, Lovelady's head would be above rather than below Prayer Man's elbow suggesting that either camera view angle was changing or Lovelady was leaning in some frames or even that he was stepping down. I will look into it when the time comes. My example only shows that it is possible to accommodate Prayer Man and Lovelady in this particular frame which is the most popular frame because of its sharpness. There are other services than PhotoBucket allowing you to get an URL and post a picture. One can have a free account with WordPress and can get URLs this way as an example. I could comment more on your point if I see the frame of interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrej Stancak Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 8 hours ago, Michael Walton said: Andrej - the photo of Baby June is with Marina, not Lee. Thanks, Michael. Although I still think it is Lee in that picture, I would hate to post something which may not be true. I am replacing that picture with another showing Lee Harvey Oswald having his left leg forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Walton Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Andrej, I'm not questioning about the lean in someone's stance. I agree many people have leans or shift their weight from leg to leg. I'm just wondering about that 3D animation image you posted showing PM with one leg on the upper step and one leg on the lower. For that long of a period of time. I guess stranger things have happened but it just seems like it'd be odd for someone to stand in that same position for that long, especially after all of the commotion. I'm sure after the shots were fired there were probably a lot of audible shouts and so forth going through the plaza. So to think PM is just standing there frozen in that rather awkward position seems strange. Sandy, as I mentioned to Cliff V a while back, and if you have a Gmail account, start a blog with Blogger. There you can upload photos onto a blog post, publish it, then grab the image URL. It basically comes with your Gmail account free and is easy to use. You don't have to type anything on the page either - just upload the photo, publish, grab URL, and you're GTG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said: Sandy: it is difficult to evaluate your comment on Lovelady being on a different step than shown in my example. In some stills, Lovelady's head would be above rather than below Prayer Man's elbow suggesting that either camera view angle was changing or Lovelady was leaning in some frames or even that he was stepping down. I will look into it when the time comes. My example only shows that it is possible to accommodate Prayer Man and Lovelady in this particular frame which is the most popular frame because of its sharpness. There are other services than PhotoBucket allowing you to get an URL and post a picture. One can have a free account with WordPress and can get URLs this way as an example. I could comment more on your point if I see the frame of interest. Andrej, I'm busy doing other stuff. Can't I just e-mail you the GIF and tell you which frame number to look at? (In addition, I just remembered that I can't remove frames from animated GIF. The software (Microsoft GIF Animator) is for making GIFs, not disassembling them. It sucks but it's what I've got. But really, I just don't have time right now.) Edited November 25, 2017 by Sandy Larsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrej Stancak Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 32 minutes ago, Michael Walton said: Andrej, I'm not questioning about the lean in someone's stance. I agree many people have leans or shift their weight from leg to leg. I'm just wondering about that 3D animation image you posted showing PM with one leg on the upper step and one leg on the lower. For that long of a period of time. I guess stranger things have happened but it just seems like it'd be odd for someone to stand in that same position for that long, especially after all of the commotion. I'm sure after the shots were fired there were probably a lot of audible shouts and so forth going through the plaza. So to think PM is just standing there frozen in that rather awkward position seems strange. Sandy, as I mentioned to Cliff V a while back, and if you have a Gmail account, start a blog with Blogger. There you can upload photos onto a blog post, publish it, then grab the image URL. It basically comes with your Gmail account free and is easy to use. You don't have to type anything on the page either - just upload the photo, publish, grab URL, and you're GTG. Michael: the films and pictures tend to freeze the time and it seems things were happening slowly and lasted for a long time. Prayer Man was not at his post, so it seems to me, in Hughes film when the motorcade was just passing by. We do not know for how long Prayer Man stay in the doorway in the way we see him in Darnell, however, Oswald was spotted by Occhus Campbell in the small storage room just two minutes after the last shot. Thus, Prayer Man if he was Oswald, stood in the doorway for about 90 seconds. I do not see any problems with standing in the one-foot-down-one-foot-up posture for less than 2 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrej Stancak Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 49 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said: Andrej, I'm busy doing other stuff. Can't I just e-mail you the GIF and tell you which frame number to look at? (In addition, I just remembered that I can't remove frames from animated GIF. The software (Microsoft GIF Animator) is for making GIFs, not disassembling them. It sucks but it's what I've got. But really, I just don't have time right now.) Sandy: there are free online utilities for disassembling GIFs. I understand fully your time constraints. Let us reopen the point when we both have more time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 (edited) I'm having problems with photobucket not pasting the right photo here. Will try with another post. There is about 5 seconds worth of frames similar to this in Martin. If his camera ran about like Zapruder then that would be about 90 to 100 frames. I'm still having problems with photobucket posting the wrong photo and posting the same photo over an over again. Sorry Sandy, If you want to see more than this then go to my website. This photo will probably not be here long due to my subscription at photobucket expiring. I am not going to renew after this sorry performance. Edited November 25, 2017 by John Butler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 On 11/23/2017 at 1:59 PM, Michael Walton said: John Butler - it may be important to keep in mind that coercison played a big role in people's testimony. By that I mean, Baker's testimony is a result of getting him to change his testimony so they could blame it on LHO. Also, in your video, I'm not seeing PM in there. Can you point out where he is? Robin and Andrej - nice work on PM having one step down while he was up there. I used to think that wasn't the case, that because he was standing back further into the alcove it made his perspective look smaller. But the one step down seems to make more sense. My only issue with it now is - when was that film frame shot - how much time since the last shot elapsed? I'm asking because would someone have just stood there frozen with one step down for that long of a time? Michael, I want to clarify my point here, please. I regard DPD Officer Marrion Baker's testimony as 100% honest, and 100% correct. Baker was not a JFK plotter, or involved in any way that I can see. If he had been, he would have been far more careful about the events -- e.g. he never would have allowed Roy Truly to accompany him to the top floor, since he would have plotted to kill Oswald on sight and you can't have an eye-witness to that. I find nothing whatsoever in Marrion Baker's testimony to convince me that he fibbed about any of it. It's as honest as he could be. Furthermore, he went back later to time his run from the corner of Main and Houston to the TSBD front porch, and up to the 2nd floor where he saw Oswald -- multiple times. The timing is precise as well. Whoever claims that Officer Marrion Baker was a L-I-A-R owes the reader some solid evidence -- not mere prejudice. Regards, --Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 18 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said: Andrej, (In addition, I just remembered that I can't remove frames from animated GIF. The software (Microsoft GIF Animator) is for making GIFs, not disassembling them. It sucks but it's what I've got. But really, I just don't have time right now.) The easy way to split frames from a GIF First download a small but powerful program from the internet called Irfanview (google it) it's free download the GIF to a folder, then open the GIF in irfanview, and while the GIF is playing click on "options" then click on "Extract all frames" It will ask you where you want to save the frames ( choose a folder ) and it will save the frames automatically in under a minute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 (edited) Andrej The bent leg isn't the problem, i am having a problem with your assertion that prayer man has his right leg resting on the next step down. I can't reconcile that with prayer man appearing to be further back on the top landing. He appears to have his back up against the wall where the wall and glass window frame join. The line of the window frame appears to run down the center of his body. How is that possible if he was standing close enough to the edge of the top landing, to place his right foot on the next step down. Edited November 26, 2017 by Robin Unger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrej Stancak Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 (edited) Robin: I understand your concerns. At the ultimate stage of the project, all doorway occupants will be fitted to their locations, including Mrs. Sanders and Mrs. Stanton, and an overlay including Prayer Man will be prepared. To this end, I still need to work out the most accurate estimate of the doorway. The screenshots I am showing are based on an estimate, maybe a close one, but an estimate. The depth of the doorway will always be an estimate, however, there should be at least some justification for the preferred doorway depth. Only then and after having all manikins completed can I show the final overlays which I hope will demonstrate a good fit for Prayer Man. Prayer Man, in theory, can stand at any point at the top of doorway along a plane which connects the camera axis with the most western pole of the glass door frame. That would include maybe only one location with one foot down and many locations in which Prayer Man would stand with both his feet on the top landing. If he stood on the top landing, it would be possible to place him very close to the glass window which seems to be the possibility you advocate. In that case, Prayer Man may not meet other constraints, such as having his left leg bent and lit by sunlight, or having his hands but not his trunk in the sunlight. The closer to the glass door Prayer Man is, the longer will be the distance between his right elbow and the brick column (or Lovelady's head). Of course, Prayer Man would be a short person should he stand on the top landing and in no case Lee Harvey Oswald. Who would you think could this short person be? We are facing the same question which Sean Murphy posed early on in this thread: who else Prayer Man would be if not Lee Harvey Oswald? Sean's logical exclusion of individual candidates applies here. Edited November 26, 2017 by Andrej Stancak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Walton Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 13 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: Michael, I want to clarify my point here, please. I regard DPD Officer Marrion Baker's testimony as 100% honest, and 100% correct. Thank you Paul. I agree with you that I do not think MB was a witting participant in the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Walton Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 7 hours ago, Robin Unger said: Andrej The bent leg isn't the problem, i am having a problem with your assertion that prayer man has his right leg resting on the next step down. Andrej - I am going to support Robin on this. My eyes and brain tell me when I look at the film frame of PM, it just does not look like he has one leg down on a lower step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrej Stancak Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 33 minutes ago, Michael Walton said: Andrej - I am going to support Robin on this. My eyes and brain tell me when I look at the film frame of PM, it just does not look like he has one leg down on a lower step. Well, Michael, subjective views delivered to your conscious mind by your eyes and brain cannot be disputed. However, if you believe your eyes and brain and place Prayer Man with both his feet on the top landing, you may wish to answer the question who Prayer Man was. At least this is the question which we want to answer in this thread. Lee Harvey Oswald (5'9'') could not be Prayer Man if you place Prayer Man with both feet his on the top landing because he would be too tall (e.g. compared to Mr. Frazier's neck/shoulder line). So, who would be your candidate for Prayer Man if you are convinced that he stood further back on the top landing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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