Oswald Leaving TSBD?

[Robin Unger]

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Frames rotated and stabilized on the Doorway

Edited August 28, 2013 by Robin Unger

[Richard Hocking]

Hello Sean

It is encouraging to see that you are a researcher who maintains an open mind on the degree of involvement Oswald had in the assassination. While I do not think it likely, it is entirely possible Oswald knew all about the assassination and, while he might not have been a shooter, he might have had other roles to play. For that matter, I am even willing to entertain he was a federal agent engaged in infiltrating groups involved in whatever.

With this in mind, let us take your last scenario about Prayer Man/Oswald and go a bit further. To do so, it must be assumed Prayer Man is holding a camera, likely a movie camera.

If he is filming, is he not in the worst possible place, deep in the shadows, to catch the assassination on film? Maybe so, but what if there was a glitch in the operation and the assassination took place in the wrong spot? Let me explain.

If I was planning an assassination with rifles at a moving target, and I wanted to assure its success, I would concentrate the rifle fire at the place where my target was slowed to an absolute crawl. Between Houston St. and the Triple Underpass, where would that spot be? There is only one answer, the 120° turn from Houston St. onto Elm St. By the time the limo has reached the Stemmons Freeway sign, it is on a relatively straight stretch of road, picking up speed going downhill and, most important, able to make a quick getaway. No, that great sled of a Lincoln was completely vulnerable and almost at a standstill while making the turn.

Now, if we look at Prayer Man as an observer and recorder of this event, it makes much more sense. From deep in the shadows on the steps, he has a ringside seat of any event taking place on the corner.

So, what happened to the plan and when did Oswald know he was set up? To answer this, we have to assume Oswald was told all of the shots would be coming from the Dal-Tex Building and the County Records Building. In the time it took Baker to run to the TSBD, Oswald may have heard witnesses speaking about seeing a rifle on the 6th floor above him plus witnesses speaking of JFK being shot so much further down Elm St. If he was the only conspirator in the TSBD, and as intelligent as it is claimed he was, it may not have taken him very long to realize he had likely been set up to take the fall, especially so if he had any inkling there was a rifle in the TSBD.

Why did he go to the 2nd floor? It is possible he felt exposed on the 1st floor and needed somewhere more secluded to get his thoughts together and come up with a new plan. That plan, I believe, was for him to walk out the front door a few minutes later.

Some very interesting thoughts in there, Robert. I think he may have nipped into the front-of-house storage room for just the reason you are giving for a purported trip upstairs to the lunchroom: to get his thoughts together and come up with a new plan.

I personally doubt that Oswald knew all about the assassination, but I do imagine he was implicated in some way. Otherwise the trap that was laid would not have snapped down so viciously and tightly on him. I believe the Prayer Man frames in Wiegman and Darnell may well be showing us a man in sudden deep shock.

My point about the scenario I laid out--Oswald following Baker & Truly upstairs--is not that I believe this is what happened (I don't) but that it is the all but necessary consequence of believing both that Oswald is Prayer Man and the lunchroom incident happened. Those buying into both elements may sincerely believe that their position is doubly supportive of Oswald's innocence: what could be sinister about standing on the steps watching the motorcade or buying a Coca-Cola? The problem is that these two actions, when combined in very quick succession, become problematical.

The bolded portions above echo my own sentiments regarding Oswald's behavior and Prayer Man's appearance in Darnell and Weigman. Going back to "Secure Location" psychology, PM/Oswald goes from a secure position in the corner of the entrance alcove to another secure position in the storage room under the stairs.

Another consideration regarding the Coke issue, Sean: LHO's first visit to the Coke machine would have been under less stressful circumstances before the motorcade arrived. After the shooting, it is possible Oswald was stressed, and decided to make another trip to the 2nd floor. This did not necessarily entail purchasing another coke if he already had one in hand.

The 2nd trip to the second floor lunch room area may simply have been because he figured other employees would gather there, or it may have had a more strategic motive he adopted after gathering his thoughts near the Storage Closet on the first floor.

[Robin Unger]

[Richard Hocking]

One more passing thought ...

Regarding Oswald's location in/near the 2nd floor floor lunchroom area following the shooting.

Just after Officer Mooney leaves the 2nd floor and starts up the steps, he encounters two unidentified men in plain clothes coming down the steps.

Oswald may have been a few short steps away from a possible encounter with these individuals.

Edited: to correct the Officers name

Edited August 28, 2013 by Richard Hocking

[Sean Murphy]

click on the image to view full size

Frames rotated and stabilized on the Doorway

Yet more top-notch image work from Robin.

It's important to note that Prayer Man's hands--whatever he's holding in them--are raised significantly higher here, during the actual shooting, than they will be in the Darnell frames less than half a minute later.

To me this body language is suggestive of a 'WTF?' response.

My hunch is that Wiegman is showing him either sipping a coke, biting into a sandwich or--just possibly--snapping a still photograph.

[Robert Prudhomme]

Just to add to my proposed theory, we cannot assume that, just because Oswald may have believed he was being set up, he believed he was being set up as the actual shooter. Nor can we assume he would have been the only conspirator in the building. In fact, my theory of shooters in the Dal-Tex Building and the County Records Building would also have included backup shooters on the 6th floor of the TSBD and the Grassy Knoll. Obviously, to make this theory work, Oswald would have been told these backup shooters would only commence firing IF something went drastically wrong with the assassination plan for the corner of Elm and Houston. Considering that all involved may have been quite surprised to have shots come from the TSBD, given the apparent ease of shooting JFK on the corner of Elm and Houston, things may have changed very quickly for Oswald, whose original plan may have been to stay in the TSBD and observe the activities in other buildings.

I theorize that the key thing that may have prompted him to lay low on the 2nd floor and then leave the TSBD a few minutes later would have been his worry that his fellow conspirator (and possible shooter), who was stopped on the 3rd or 4th floor by Baker and ID'ed by Truly, would have revealed Oswald under interrogation.

I think that, as well as ID'ing Prayer Man, we would be wise to ID the man who was stopped on the 3rd or 4th floor. This should not be that difficult, if he was indeed an employee at the TSBD.

[Sean Murphy]

Listening to Buell Wesley Frazier's loyal protestations over the years of incredulity at the idea of Oswald's being the shooter, I cannot shake the suspicion that he saw his friend Oswald on the steps and that this fact was part of the reason he was subjected to such a gruelling interrogation regime the night of the assassination. It's as though he's been doing displaced penance ever since. Under the judicious friendly ministration of intrepidly unbiased JFK researcher Dave 'Oswald Time Trial' Perry.

Funny in this light that BWF's WC description of Bill Shelley's location at the time of the shooting--

Mr. FRAZIER - Well, see, I was standing, like I say, one step down from the top, and Mr. Shelley was standing, you know, back from the top step and over toward the side of the wall there. See, he was standing right over there, and then Billy was a couple of steps down from me over toward more the wall also.

--reads as a damn near perfect description of where we know Prayer Man was at that time (and where Shelley himself could not have been).

[Pat Speer]

Is that you, Lee?

I hesitate to say it but it's beginning to look more like a Betty Lee to me. Is that a large purse in his/her hands?

Edited August 28, 2013 by Pat Speer

[J. Raymond Carroll]

Is that you, Lee?

I hesitate to say it but it's beginning to look more like a Betty Lee to me. Is that a large purse in his/her hands?

Denial, Pat,

is not just a river in Egypt.

Absolutely fantastic work by Robin and Sean.

The Champagne is on me!

[Sean Murphy]

Is that you, Lee?

I hesitate to say it but it's beginning to look more like a Betty Lee to me. Is that a large purse in his/her hands?

...which 'she' was holding up to 'her' face to watch the motorcade? Hardly, Pat.

[J. Raymond Carroll]

For Oswald to be Prayer Man,

and

for the second-floor lunchroom incident to have really happened as described by Baker and Truly to the WC,

there is only one realistic scenario available....

Why would the Oswald of this scenario want to keep tabs on Baker & Truly's progress? The answer hardly needs spelling out.

Since I am the class dunce,

who naively believes in the complete innocence of Prayer Man Lee

you will have to spell it out for me.

Edited August 28, 2013 by J. Raymond Carroll

[Martin Hinrichs]

I don't know if this of help, but i stabled the short Darnell sequence myself, taking care of the rotation in the frames.

This is a GIF with all frames incl all heavy blur frames:

and here the same but all blurry frames been reased:

Martin

[William Kelly]

Can anyone identify the person who took this film, when it was taken, where in it is- what floor? and who are the guys in suits and hats that Baker and Truly are talking to?

[Richard Hocking]

For Oswald to be Prayer Man,

and

for the second-floor lunchroom incident to have really happened as described by Baker and Truly to the WC,

there is only one realistic scenario available....

Why would the Oswald of this scenario want to keep tabs on Baker & Truly's progress? The answer hardly needs spelling out.

Since I am the class dunce,

who naively believes in the complete innocence of Prayer Man Lee

you will have to spell it out for me.

Ray,

I think Sean has described one reasonable scenario: LHO saw Baker and Truly run by and goes to the 2nd floor to check their progress.

I disagree with Sean that there is only one realistic scenario.

As I described a few posts above there is at least one other possible scenario. Roughly during the same time interval that Oswald is seen upstairs near the lunchroom/ or by Reid's desk, Officer Mooney encounters the two unidentified men coming down the stairs to the 2nd floor. There are a couple possibilities here:

1. Oswald is supposed to rendevous with these two men. Use your imagination to think of a reason why.

2. Oswald is freaked out by what he witnessed out on the steps and is seeking out these two men to find out what the hell happened up there.

But for either #1 or #2, Lee would have to have known in advance that something was going on.

I am not claiming that I believe these are anything more than possibilites, at least for now.

[William Kelly]

Is that you, Lee?

I hesitate to say it but it's beginning to look more like a Betty Lee to me. Is that a large purse in his/her hands?

...which 'she' was holding up to 'her' face to watch the motorcade? Hardly, Pat.

Now this bottom film of the cars turning the corner, who is the cameraman? thanks