Jump to content
The Education Forum

Recommended Posts

Roy Truly's affidavit of 23/11/63 has some interesting information, as well.

"We searched the roof and a small room, also checked the landings. We could look out over the tracks and street below. We did not find anything. We started down on the elevator. The officer took a hurried look on a couple of floors on the way down. We then met some other officers on the 4th floor searching the building. I overheard someone say that the shot came from the window of our building. By that time there was several people in the building. Some fifteen minutes later I was checking our employees, and I did not find Lee. I asked Mr. Shelley if he had seen Lee. He said no. I then contacted Chief Lumkin and told him Lee was missing."

Just the day before, it was Shelley who claimed he had asked Truly if he had seen Lee, to which Truly had replied no. And there are the two officers on the 4th floor again. Strange.

Edited by Robert Prudhomme
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 3.5k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Martin, I was thinking that it looked like a person taking pictures as well. IMO, he had to get in the shade to do so, because otherwise in the sunlight he would only get glare and would be unable to see what he was attempting to get a picture of. As much as I think that prayerman looks like Oswald and thought we had the smoking gun, I do believe a camera in his hands would remove him from consideration. (that is, of course, if it is a camera that he is holding)

Sure Terry, i was thinking the same.

But on the other hand Sean's and Richard's arguments are convincing.

None of the TSBD employees standind in the doorway reported to have taken pictures and

the left arm of this man is considerable lower in Wiegman.

I would use both arms holding a camera.

I don't know what that white piece in front of his head is in Wiegman...in Darnell it is gone.

Just the arms are noticeable lower.

What is that?

best to you

Martin

Just a thought re the Wiegman.........Assume that Prayer Man is holding a bottle of Coke in his right hand. As Prayer Man proceeds to take a sip from the bottle, he brings it up to his mouth and tilts the bottle back (so that the bottle is almost horizontal as he is taking his sip). The round, light area in front of Prayer Man's lower facial region could be a reflection of light off of the round base of a Coke bottle.

Edited by Michael Griffin
Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a thought re the Wiegman.........Assume that Prayer Man is holding a bottle of Coke in his right hand. As Prayer Man proceeds to take a sip from the bottle, he brings it up to his mouth and tilts the bottle back (so that the bottle is almost horizontal as he is taking his sip). The round, light area in front of Prayer Man's lower facial region could be a reflection of light off of the round base of a Coke bottle.

Good argument Michael.

Link to post
Share on other sites

By that time there was several people in the building. Some fifteen minutes later I was checking our employees, and I did not find Lee. I asked Mr. Shelley if he had seen Lee. He said no. I then contacted Chief Lumkin and told him Lee was missing."

Forrest Sorrels was involved. It may be in Sorrels testimony, but I recall from somewhere that Sorrels

asked Truly to see if all his men were accounted for.

I believe it was Sorrels, knowing that Lee had already done an Elvis

and left the building, who initiated the inquiry.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here a closeup crop of the Wiegman film:

0a673d0e-d42a-4708-9240-e3f41cfb5497.gif

Superb stuff, Martin.

Looks to me like Prayer Man's right hand is significantly higher than his left here.

Contrast the 'join' in Darnell:

PrayerMandarnellmarked.jpg

My money is still on a Coca-Cola--taking a swig in Wiegman, return to two-hand clasp by Darnell.

Yes Sean, you are correct. My idea of a camera in his hand is apparently invalid.

Has someone created an overview in map to show all the people in the doorway?

To me it looks like Prayerman was standing directly at the wall but not on the top pedestal.

Most likely one step lower.

When looking closely at the stable Darnell (not Couch as i stated falsely) sequence from me

i see the right glass door being operated. Opended most likely. But thats just a side note.

best to you

Martin

Martin,

I agree with your observation. Prayer Man looks like he is standing one step from the top.

Link to post
Share on other sites

By that time there was several people in the building. Some fifteen minutes later I was checking our employees, and I did not find Lee. I asked Mr. Shelley if he had seen Lee. He said no. I then contacted Chief Lumkin and told him Lee was missing."

Forrest Sorrels was involved. It may be in Sorrels testimony, but I recall from somewhere that Sorrels

asked Truly to see if all his men were accounted for.

I believe it was Sorrels, knowing that Lee had already done an Elvis

and left the building, who initiated the inquiry.

Once again, from Bill Shelley's affidavit of 22/11/63:

"After the President's accident (?), I started checking around and I'd missed Lee. I ask Mr. Truly about him and he said he had not seen him."

Don't you find this statement a bit strange, in light of Truly signing an affidavit on 23/11/63 where he not only sees Oswald on the 2nd floor as baker sticks a gun in his stomach, but he also states that it was him asking Shelley if Shelley had seen Oswald. and not Shelley asking Truly if he had seen Oswald? Should Truly not have said, "Oh, we saw him on the 2nd floor. He may still be up there, for all we know."

How would Forrest Sorrels know, at this point, that Oswald had left the TSBD?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't you find this statement a bit strange, in light of Truly signing an affidavit on 23/11/63 where he not only sees Oswald on the 2nd floor as baker sticks a

that it was him asking Shelley if Shelley had seen Oswald. and not Shelley asking Truly if he had seen Oswald? Should Truly not have said, "Oh, we saw him on the 2nd floor. He may still be up there, for all we know."

How would Forrest Sorrels know, at this point, that Oswald had left the TSBD?

I don't see anything strange about the Shelley -Truly confusion.

I've seen it happen a million times.

Sorrels is the guy who chose the ridiculous parade route, so he had to know

what was going down that day

Edited by J. Raymond Carroll
Link to post
Share on other sites
Don't you find this statement a bit strange, in light of Truly signing an affidavit on 23/11/63 where he not only sees Oswald on the 2nd floor as baker sticks a

that it was him asking Shelley if Shelley had seen Oswald. and not Shelley asking Truly if he had seen Oswald? Should Truly not have said, "Oh, we saw him on the 2nd floor. He may still be up there, for all we know."

How would Forrest Sorrels know, at this point, that Oswald had left the TSBD?

I don't see anything strange about the Shelley -Truly confusion.

I've seen it happen a million times.

Sorrels is the guy who chose the ridiculous parade route, so he had to know

what was going down that day

I have to disagree with you on this one. Truly supposedly saw Oswald on the 2nd floor only minutes before Shelley asked Truly if he saw Oswald, and Truly can't recall seeing Oswald and seeing Baker pointing a gun at him? Outside of the two "officers" Baker and Truly encountered on the 4th floor, who else did they see?

How does choosing the parade route give Forrest Sorrels the ability to know if Oswald is still in the TSBD?

Link to post
Share on other sites

With all due respect to Ray Carroll, could I ask that this recent and rather bizarre string of music-related posts be deleted by the mods as off-topic and distracting?

I was thinking about that myself. Sorry, Ray, but I agree with Sean. Your posts were not about Oswald or the building, but about your favorite Irish songs. If you'd like to start such a thread, please do so on the appropriate section of the forum.

Thanks, Pat.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a thought re the Wiegman.........Assume that Prayer Man is holding a bottle of Coke in his right hand. As Prayer Man proceeds to take a sip from the bottle, he brings it up to his mouth and tilts the bottle back (so that the bottle is almost horizontal as he is taking his sip). The round, light area in front of Prayer Man's lower facial region could be a reflection of light off of the round base of a Coke bottle.

Exactly, Michael, glint off a coke bottle is a very strong possibility.

The fact that Wiegman shows one hand up to the face while the other is still kept raised to chest level is IMO extremely significant, for it suggests

a ) he cannot have been using a camera

b ) he was holding something in both hands.

What I'm seeing is either this--

Q28hW3G.jpg

--or its reverse (i.e. drinking the coke using one hand and holding the sandwich in the other).

Again we must remind ourselves of Fritz's words during his WC testimony:

Mr. FRITZ. He said he was having his lunch. He had a cheese sandwich and a Coca-Cola.

I believe that's exactly what Lee Oswald did tell Fritz he was doing--only he didn't say he was doing it in the second-floor lunchroom, he said he was doing it out front.

If so, then Fritz has just seconds before his comment above committed a major boo-boo:

Mr. FRITZ. Well he told me that he was eating lunch with some of the employees when this happened, and that he saw all the excitement...

He was having his lunch ... he was eating lunch: same timeframe, same claim.

I believe Oswald named one of the "employees" he had been eating lunch with, and it wasn't 'Junior' [Jarman] or the short 'negro' [Norman] (whose names did come up in a different context). It was Bill Shelley.

Edited by Sean Murphy
Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe that's exactly what Lee Oswald did tell Fritz he was doing--only he didn't say he was doing it in the second-floor lunchroom, he said he was doing it out front.

I believe Oswald named one of the "employees" he had been eating lunch with, and it wasn't 'Junior' [Jarman] or the short 'negro' [Norman] (whose names did come up in a different context). It was Bill Shelley.

Are you recommending a faith-based approach by the rest of us, Sean?

Just because you were the genius who discovered Prayer Man

does not mean we should believe everything you believe,

like the perjured testimony of Will Fritz

which was proven false when his notes revealed that Prayer Man told him

that when the president passed by he was

Out with Bill Shelley in front.

I think we have the FBI guys confirming that he said

he was getting a coke on the second floor when the policeman came in.

And I again submit that Prayer Man

is clapping his hands.

Edited by J. Raymond Carroll
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...