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Oswald's Coke


William Kelly
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There has been much discussion about Oswald's coke a cola.

Does "Prayer Man" have a soda bottle in his hand?

Did Oswald have a coke bottle in his hand when Baker confronted him?

In one report Baker said Oswald had a coke in his hand and then crossed it out.

Did Oswald buy the coke after he encountered Baker and Truly?

Mrs. Reid said Oswald had a full coke in his hand when he walked casually passed her second floor office desk about two minutes after the last shot.

What happened to the coke bottle after Oswald drank the coke?

Did he walk down the street with it?

Did he throw it away in the trash container in the storage closet under the front steps?

How come the cops didn't find it? Or did they bother to search for the coke bottle at all?

And what became of the other two cola bottles - the one that Zapruder's secretary heard break when it fell from the park bench on the Grassy Knoll and the Dr. Pepper found on the sixth floor just outside the Sniper's Nest with the remnants of the chicken sandwich? Was that ever tested for fingerprints and if so what did they show? And what became of that bottle? Did it get flushed down the toilet of missing evidence?

The surviving notes of Oswald's interrogation says he had the coke in his hand when Baker confronted him, or did Oswald say he went to get a coke?

The whole interrogation - series of interrogation session should be subjected to "careful and sober" analysis, as Reitzes would say, and deserve a whole thread, as the interrogation discussions include more than just the coke, but I'd like to know more about both soda bottles - Oswald's coke and the Dr. Pepper, which I think was claimed by Charles Givens, the guy who had been convicted of something and according to the cops, would change his story to whatever they wanted.

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There has been much discussion about Oswald's coke a cola.

Does "Prayer Man" have a soda bottle in his hand?

Did Oswald have a coke bottle in his hand when Baker confronted him?

In one report Baker said Oswald had a coke in his hand and then crossed it out.

Did Oswald buy the coke after he encountered Baker and Truly?

Mrs. Reid said Oswald had a full coke in his hand when he walked casually passed her second floor office desk about two minutes after the last shot.

What happened to the coke bottle after Oswald drank the coke?

Did he walk down the street with it?

Did he throw it away in the trash container in the storage closet under the front steps?

How come the cops didn't find it? Or did they bother to search for the coke bottle at all?

And what became of the other two cola bottles - the one that Zapruder's secretary heard break when it fell from the park bench on the Grassy Knoll and the Dr. Pepper found on the sixth floor just outside the Sniper's Nest with the remnants of the chicken sandwich? Was that ever tested for fingerprints and if so what did they show? And what became of that bottle? Did it get flushed down the toilet of missing evidence?

The surviving notes of Oswald's interrogation says he had the coke in his hand when Baker confronted him, or did Oswald say he went to get a coke?

The whole interrogation - series of interrogation session should be subjected to "careful and sober" analysis, as Reitzes would say, and deserve a whole thread, as the interrogation discussions include more than just the coke, but I'd like to know more about both soda bottles - Oswald's coke and the Dr. Pepper, which I think was claimed by Charles Givens, the guy who had been convicted of something and according to the cops, would change his story to whatever they wanted.

Bill,

FWIW,

I remember reading somewhere that Oswald's favorite soft drink was Dr. Pepper.

Yes, I am aware of the fact that Duke Lane (or somebody) pointed out that back in the early '60s, especially in the South, many people called any kind of soft drink "a coke."

I'm consoled by the fact that you have as many questions about it as I do.

Good post!

--Tommy :sun

PS: Based on the way Prayer Man is holding his hands, I think he's holding a pair of binoculars, not a "coke" bottle.

Edited by Thomas Graves
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Tom, in the South, the common vernacular for a soft drink was a "bottle of pop" and, more often than not followed with a "moon pie." Usually that "pop" was an RC Cola. Another description was a "jar of dope". Obviously that was in days gone by considering what "dope " is today.

Edited by Terry Adams
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Tom, in the South, the common vernacular for a soft drink was a "bottle of pop" and, more often than not followed with a "moon pie" Usually that was an RC Cola.

A few questions for anybody to answer:

1) Most people have one or two favorite soft drinks. (Mine happen to be 7-Up and Hires Root Beer.) Question: Did Oswald have a favorite soft drink / pop / soda pop / soda / "coke" with a small "c" / "moon pie" / etc, etc? If so, what was it? Dr Pepper, by any chance? (FWIW, it's my understanding that Dr Pepper started out in Waco, Texas during The Depression.)

2) Is it true that, in his book, Bugliosi claims to have been told by an elderly former employee of the TSBD that there was a Dr. Pepper machine in the first floor "lunchroom" (domino room?) ?

3) Did "Coca-Cola" machines back-in-the-day dispense only "Coca-Cola," or other "soda pops" as well?

I haven't read The Bug's book and I'm not really interested in doing so; I just now picked up this first-floor Dr Pepper machine tidbit on somebody's blog site.

And yes, I realize that there was a "Coca-Cola" machine in the second floor lunchroom. There's a Warren Commission photo which shows it.

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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Dave VP, why, on your web site, did you include that mud slinging internet forum exchange, when all you really needed to do was to quote Jean Davison? Why muddy the waters?

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/oswald-baker-truly-and-coca-cola.html

Jean merely said that Burnett had possibly heard some incorrect through-the-grapevine information about Oswald's "Coke", and he (Burnett) incorporated that incorrect information into the statement he wrote up for Officer Marrion L. Baker to sign on September 23, 1964.

http://s217.photobucket.com/user/David_Von_Pein/media/MISCELLANEOUS JFK-RELATED PHOTOS/MarrionBaker9-23-64AffidavitAsSeenI.png.html?t=1277192153

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?s=888f941f5d45616302513bb83d77312f&showtopic=20456

"The agent imo included the Coke not because Baker said it, but because it was "established myth" by 9/64 and the agent included it as part of the narrative. He probably didn't give it a second thought and neither did Baker when he crossed it out. It wasn't important to them." -- Jean Davison; January 10, 2010

And, sure enough, there is. I found the cover letter in question at the Mary Ferrell website. It's located in Warren Commission Document #1526.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11921&relPageId=2

CD1526 includes a letter that was sent from FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover to J. Lee Rankin of the Warren Commission (dated September 25, 1964):

"Reference is made to a telephone conversation between Mr. Alfred Goldberg of your [Warren Commission] staff and Mr. J. R. Malley of this Bureau [FBI] on September 23, 1964. During this conversation Mr. Goldberg requested that signed statements be obtained from Mr. Roy S. Truly and Officer Marrion L. Baker of the Dallas Police Department. Enclosed are the original signed statements obtained from these individuals and a Xerox of each. Sincerely yours, /s/ J. Edgar Hoover"

----------

So, it appears that Jean Davison could very well be correct when she said this in an earlier Internet message:

"Baker's affidavit of Sept 23, 1964 and a similar one from Truly were dated only one day before the Warren Report was officially released, and both their statements were, unlike all the other FBI documents I'm aware of, *handwritten*. IOW, they were prepared in a big hurry. Their statements are footnoted to a WR paragraph on the "rumor" that there was someone else in the lunchroom when Baker confronted Oswald. (Neither Baker or Truly had been specifically asked this in their testimony. Their 9/64 affidavits supplied the explicit answer: no one else was in the lunchroom.) I surmise that someone at the WC realized at the last minute that they needed a "cite" for this statement."-- Jean Davison;
01/10/10

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Dave VP, why, on your web site, did you include that mud slinging internet forum exchange, when all you really needed to do was to quote Jean Davison? Why muddy the waters?

The mud-slinging was minimal in that article, Bill. And there are (IMO) some good and informative things that came out of my forum exchange with CTer Roger Collins at Duncan MacRae's forum earlier this year (which appears in "Addendum #2" of the article).....

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/oswald-baker-truly-and-coca-cola.html

But in the future I'll try to remember to consult William Kelly when I want to post something to my own personal website/blog. Forgive me for being too verbose in your eyes, Bill. I can't help it, you see. My mother was a real chatterbox. It must be inherited. :)

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Dave VP, why, on your web site, did you include that mud slinging internet forum exchange, when all you really needed to do was to quote Jean Davison? Why muddy the waters?

The mud-slinging was minimal in that article, Bill. And there are (IMO) some good and informative things that came out of my forum exchange with CTer Roger Collins at Duncan MacRae's forum earlier this year (which appears in "Addendum #2" of the article).....

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/oswald-baker-truly-and-coca-cola.html

But in the future I'll try to remember to consult William Kelly when I want to post something to my own personal website/blog. Forgive me for being too verbose in your eyes, Bill. I can't help it, you see. My mother was a real chatterbox. It must be inherited. :)

No don't consult me Dave, I don't have time for your junk, you should edit your own stuff - you should recognize what's evidence and what's junk - you put out the most of it. Just cut it back to what we need to know.

And for some reason, Jean Davison is in another class from the rest of you guys, as she sticks to the evidence while you and McA and DR can't talk about anything without mentioning Conspiracy Theoriests. Jean usually cuts to the chase, and you could learn a lot from her rather than your mother.

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Tom, in the South, the common vernacular for a soft drink was a "bottle of pop" and, more often than not followed with a "moon pie" Usually that was an RC Cola.

A few questions for anybody to answer:

1) Most people have one or two favorite soft drinks. (Mine happen to be 7-Up and Hires Root Beer.) Question: Did Oswald have a favorite soft drink / pop / soda pop / soda / "coke" with a small "c" / "moon pie" / etc, etc? If so, what was it? Dr Pepper, by any chance? (FWIW, it's my understanding that Dr Pepper started out in Waco, Texas during The Depression.)

2) Is it true that, in his book, Bugliosi claims to have been told by an elderly former employee of the TSBD that there was a Dr. Pepper machine in the first floor "lunchroom" (domino room?) ?

3) Did "Coca-Cola" machines back-in-the-day dispense only "Coca-Cola," or other "soda pops" as well?

I haven't read The Bug's book and I'm not really interested in doing so; I just now picked up this first-floor Dr Pepper machine tidbit on somebody's blog site.

And yes, I realize that there was a "Coca-Cola" machine in the second floor lunchroom. There's a Warren Commission photo which shows it.

--Tommy :sun

Tommy, to answer your questions, yes I too recall it being said that Oswald preferred Dr. Pepper, but just like some days you want a Pepsi and other days a Coke, I think he went for the coke because he needed change from Mrs. Hine and she was on the second floor and that's where the Coke machine was.

The Dr. Pepper machine was located in the back of the first floor away from the Domino Room by the stairs, and there's a photo of it on the internet somewhere.

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Since this is a thread dedicated to Oswald's coke (long overdue imo), I would like to chip in with a bit of trivia that may or may not add any value to the discussion.

During the 1950's, most Coke Vending Machines dispensed 6 1/2 ounce bottles of coke. In 1963, Some of these older Vending machines were still in operation, but newer machines had been introduced that offered the 10 ounce size. And I believe the "Giant" 12 ounce coke bottles were also just coming out around that time.

If you look at some of the Lunch room photos, there are empty bottles and crates. It might be interesting to see what size cokes were being sold in the Coke Machine.

I can tell you from experience that 6 1/2 ounce cokes went down fast.

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Since this is a thread dedicated to Oswald's coke (long overdue imo), I would like to chip in with a bit of trivia that may or may not add any value to the discussion.

During the 1950's, most Coke Vending Machines dispensed 6 1/2 ounce bottles of coke. In 1963, Some of these older Vending machines were still in operation, but newer machines had been introduced that offered the 10 ounce size. And I believe the "Giant" 12 ounce coke bottles were also just coming out around that time.

If you look at some of the Lunch room photos, there are empty bottles and crates. It might be interesting to see what size cokes were being sold in the Coke Machine.

I can tell you from experience that 6 1/2 ounce cokes went down fast.

Now that you mention it, I'm having a flashback to the scene in Dr. Strangelove where the Canadian Colonel convinces the American sergeant to shoot open the coke machine to get change for the pay phone in order to call the White House.

I think Oswald got a classic coke.

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Since this is a thread dedicated to Oswald's coke (long overdue imo), I would like to chip in with a bit of trivia that may or may not add any value to the discussion.

During the 1950's, most Coke Vending Machines dispensed 6 1/2 ounce bottles of coke. In 1963, Some of these older Vending machines were still in operation, but newer machines had been introduced that offered the 10 ounce size. And I believe the "Giant" 12 ounce coke bottles were also just coming out around that time.

If you look at some of the Lunch room photos, there are empty bottles and crates. It might be interesting to see what size cokes were being sold in the Coke Machine.

I can tell you from experience that 6 1/2 ounce cokes went down fast.

Now that you mention it, I'm having a flashback to the scene in Dr. Strangelove where the Canadian Colonel convinces the American sergeant to shoot open the coke machine to get change for the pay phone in order to call the White House.

I think Oswald got a classic coke.

LOL The colonel was British, actually, not Canadian, and his rank was Group Captain (RAF), not colonel. We don't really sound like that do we? :(

Group Captain Lionel Mandrake (Peter Sellers), and the one with the M1 carbine shooting up the Coke machine was American Colonel "Bat" Guano, played by the great Keenan Wynn.

It was indeed a classic, and the classic line in that scene belongs to Keenan Wynn who, just before shooting up the Coke machine, opines "You'll have to answer to the Coca-Cola Company!"

Edited by Robert Prudhomme
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In many cases, the merchant who has the Coke machine on his premises had to buy the Coke machine, as well as but the product from Coca-Cola. BUT they weren't necessarily prohibited from putting other brands in the machine, as long as the top 2,3,or 4 rows were strictly Coca-Cola. So in 1963 you could theoretically go to buy a Coke, and end up with a Sprite, a Pepsi, a Barqs root beer, or the hot new drink that the youth were making popular, Mountain Dew [a Pepsi product]. In the town where I grew up, if it came from the Coke machine, it was a "coke"...not a "pop," not a "soda," sometimes a "soft drink"...and sometimes it was actually a Coca-Cola.

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