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When do you think elite American opinion will accept the JFK assassination as a high level domestic coup d'etat?


Guest Robert Morrow
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Guest Robert Morrow

The delusions in elite American historical/political opinion will fade away one day. I think it will have to include the deaths of prominent historians and political opinion makers, that will allow a younger generation of historians to express the truth of the JFK assassination: that it was a high level domestic American coup d'état.

I also think the reputation of Lyndon Johnson is going to get machine gunned riddled as has the Warren Commission.

So I think that 25 years from now, by January, 2038 - the weight of elite American historical/political opinion will accept that - duh - the JFK assassination was an "inside job" emanating from the highest political and economic levels (& military/intelligence) of American society, with LBJ being considered a key plotter.

So by what year do you think the "dam will break?"

Maybe it will occur before 25 years.

Edited by Robert Morrow
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Most of the people who were involved are dead now. But the institutions that were behind it still exist, and they will continue to exist, indeed become ever more powerful, as long as the nation itself exists. The only dam that's going to break is the U.S. economy, going down the proverbial drain (one more good war, probably Iran, ought to do it), and when that happens no one is going to care about JFK.

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I do think we have always lived in parallel universes and have never fully appreciated the paradox. On the one hand, the "JFK" movie was a huge box office hit and created the JFK Records Act and the ARRB...yet, on the other hand, I remember seeing articles chastising those with an interest in the case ("few on the outside world care"- the reaction from the press to the June 1991 Fredonia Third Decade conference that had about 60 participants tops). On the one hand, JFK is frequently at or near the top of public opinion polls...yet historians frequently place him in the "average" to "slightly above average" category. On the one hand, books on JFK's life are huge best-sellers (Dallek, Matthews, Alford, Hill, etc)...yet, on the other hand, JFK is marginalized in a lot of circles for his womanizing and the alleged connection to Marilyn Monroe.

Continuing on this trend: on the one hand, JFK assassination books (this 50th anniversary) are selling like crazy- huge pre-order sales for multiple titles and several are already best-sellers ("Hit List", Ventura's new book, Corsi's new book)...yet, on the other hand (and this can be attached to all the prior points), the average person is lost in their own world in the 21rst century in the year 2013, worried about the economy, their own personal life, etc., "tuned-in-turned-on-dropped-out" with their iPhones and their ear buds, and doesn't really care...at least, no where near as much as we do (or wish they did). The fact that the latest opinion poll "only" shows a 57-59 percent PRO conspiracy belief is alarming- it used to be 75-90 percent. The advent of time has a lot to do with this.

If we can acknowledge that this is an HISTORICAL topic and that the average Joe only has so much interest in the case, we will have our heads on straight and not lose perspective.

To answer the question directly (finally!): they will never do so because to make that leap is to acknowledge that this is NOT the country we were promised...people may BELIEVE there was a conspiracy but they do not (want to) KNOW it; big difference.

Groden is fond of the saying "It may be too late for justice in this case [it is], but it is never too late for the truth"...

Now, maybe it is.

I wrote my book (coming out 10/22/13) for the historical record and the truth, sure...but I KNOW there is a powerful mental block from the media and the public (let alone the government) to acknowledge that "the good guys" (the Secret Service) could have been responsible, either thru "just" negligence or worse. Look how Clint Hill is deified by many- 'nuff said.

Vince

Edited by Vince Palamara
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Addendum/ postscript:

I always knew you can take a large segment of the population with a grain of salt (as to their real interest in anything beyond the borders of their front and back yards)- two examples come to mind:

Mark Lane gave an impassioned and moving speech about the case in February 1992 at the local Borders in Pittsburgh, PA. When he was done, some 20-something stood up and said "I think Bullwinkle killed Kennedy" to gales of laughter...yet those SAME people had his book in their hands for purchase and autographs!

A bearded researcher (who shall remain anonymous) appeared on a cable access program and, likewise, gave a stirring presentation on the case for conspiracy. The host took the first caller on the phone lines. The caller giggled and said "are you still a virgin?" and hung up.

People may buy a product, but do they truly BUY it?

Edited by Vince Palamara
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Better yet, do they comprehend the subject? A certain segment of the population may believe there was a conspiracy but, for their limited understanding of the assassination (mostly derived from exaggerations seen in Oliver Stone's movie), they might as well profess a belief in Santa Claus.

I myself must admit that real understanding of the conspiracy only began for me about five years ago; despite my "gut" feeling for decades that LHO was not alone.

I think you are correct in saying that today's generation is too self absorbed in their electronic paradise to want to put in the time and effort to learn the depth of the truth in the assassination and cover up. Then again, maybe this is the way it has always been.

I'm sure those involved in the cover up have relied heavily on the average person's desire to be mollified by the myth that "all is well in America, except for the odd lone nut".

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I agree with Robert and Vince. One also has to recognize that 50years is a long time. The majority of those who have a strong interest in this case are those who "experienced it as current events." Younger people have little if any interest in the matter.

One can understand that. How much interest did we individually or collectively, have in the events of 1913? (or the first world war of 1914-1918?)

A phrase that I have heard at many wakes is : " Time heals all things. " I believe that time also helps to obfuscate the truth about historical mysteries. (eg. Tutankamun's lineage, the cause of the Titanic disaster, The Little Bighorn battle,etc.)

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Guest Robert Morrow

I think JFK assassination commentator Martin Schotz said it - paraphrasing:

Most Americans "believe" there was a conspiracy that murdered JFK.

Most Americans do not *know* or want to *know* that a high level, inside job, domestic American conspiracy murdered John Kennedy.

And with America political elites & opinion makers, academics, government officials, respected historians and commentators this denial is triple or quadruple the case. This is because JFK truth discredits their friends, in some case themselves, their social class, their former employers, their current employers, their family, their political or actual ancestors.

As I expressed before, I think that once opinion makers like Chris Matthews, Bill O'Reilly, Robert Caro, Robert Dallek and name 50 others of their ilk literally start croaking, pushing pansies, buying the farm, etc... it will free up the intellectual room for younger historians to start actually telling the TRUTH about the JFK assassination in elite circles, on the pages of NYT, Wash Post, WSJ, PBS, major publishing houses.

Not wishing death on those folks, however they are a disgrace.

I think it will take another 25 years for critical mass to be reached in elite circles to accept that the JFK assassination was a high level domestic coup d'état.

Edited by Robert Morrow
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Good comments, everyone.

I think I know what the REAL story is: most people view this as dramatic entertainment; nothing more, nothing less (think of the millions who saw "Titanic" and "Lincoln"). Another personal story: a non-researcher from my area, barely an acquaintance, purchased an early edition (1994) of my book straight from me at my old apartment door. He showed up and paid me cash- during the transaction, I asked him what his take on the case was. His answer: "I don't really care, I just love to read about it." Sad but true.

I think the moral to the story is this: what WE get up in arms about in this case concerns US but the average Joe doesn't give a rat's behind. Perhaps THAT is why stupid theories like Greer shooting JFK appeal so strongly to novices (non-researchers): it "solves" the case in a non-Oswald fashion.

In the past twenty+ years, THE two inquiries I field the most from the "average Joes" out there: "do you think Marilyn Monroe got it on with JFK?" and "do you think the driver shot Kennedy?" Again, sad but true.

I remember thinking, after all the mass hoopla of the "JFK" movie, with the pinch-me-I'm-dreaming television coverage, programs, and whole bookshelves of new books on the case (many of dubious quality), we were due for a letdown or even a backlash...then came JAMA (1992) Posner (1993) and Mailer (1994) [bugliosi and Blaine messed up- they appeared on "off" years when the case wasn't red hot (2007 and 2010). Blaine's mistake is to my supreme benefit- I get to answer his propaganda in a huge anniversary year]

We need to remember: there are experienced authors and researchers (us), the novices (well-meaning readers of books only), then the "average Joes": the well-meaning couch potatoes who "believe" there was a conspiracy, then burp and ask "Are the Cowboys playin' tonight?"

Reality at its finest (or worst).

Vince

Edited by Vince Palamara
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" ... dam break?" - Never. It will never happen. To admit a fundamental flaw is counter to anything the elite are interested in propagating. To expect otherwise at any time on any issue merely legitimises their opinions. To expect an illegitimate system to admit their flood of propaganda aimed at legitimising their selves is illegitimate to start with is ridiculous.

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Vince,

I agree with you completely. Those of us old enough to remember that day in Dallas are a dying breed. To us it is personal. But the memory, the real interest, the desire for truth and justice, will die with us. How many younger people today tweet about JFK, or debate the subject on Facebook? To the new Americans there are more important things to consider, like whether Miley Cyrus is obscene or not, or whether any NFL football team is going to hire Tim Tebow. To the more serious-minded, such as the talking heads on CNN or FoxNews, there are enough grave issues to consider, such as a seemingly inevitable U.S. war with Iran and all its repercussions, or the seemingly inevitable collapse of the U.S. economy with its worldwide impact, that JFK is reduced to nothing more than the title of a movie back in the 1990s.

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I'm pretty much with Ron on this. To OUR generation, it WAS "personal." To those who come after us...not so important. I think the word "conspiracy" is used a lot more than it should be, but I also have some reasonable doubts that Oswald pulled the trigger.

My son, who's 33, has next to ZERO interest in the case. One time I asked him why it seemed so insignificant in his life, and he explained. "For you guys [our generation], it was news. For us [his generation], it's history...and there's enough going on in today's world, that I don't have a lot of time or interest in studying history since I graduated [from high school]."

So who's to blame for their lack of interest? Maybe no one. Maybe everyone. In THEIR world, they're used to going to Google and finding easy answers. For the most part, they don't want to "play detective," because it would require a larger investment of time and resources than they're willing to give.

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Vince,

I agree with you completely. Those of us old enough to remember that day in Dallas are a dying breed. To us it is personal. But the memory, the real interest, the desire for truth and justice, will die with us. How many younger people today tweet about JFK, or debate the subject on Facebook? To the new Americans there are more important things to consider, like whether Miley Cyrus is obscene or not, or whether any NFL football team is going to hire Tim Tebow. To the more serious-minded, such as the talking heads on CNN or FoxNews, there are enough grave issues to consider, such as a seemingly inevitable U.S. war with Iran and all its repercussions, or the seemingly inevitable collapse of the U.S. economy with its worldwide impact, that JFK is reduced to nothing more than the title of a movie back in the 1990s.

That’s it, though. The “personal,” as you put it, resides in the fact that we (even if you were only 12 like I was) could feel it – feel the energy, the dynamism. We knew, somehow, that we were headed somewhere great and that there would be a commitment to the country’s ideals. It was a great feeling. The only way you can know an experiential reality, however, is to experience it.

And that’s what subsequent generations lack – the feeling of the reality of it all and a true sense of the opportunities that were lost. They’ve known only the growing twilight that followed. That’s been their reality. The ability to feel has been seemingly kicked out of them.

To us it may seem that they have been seduced by the beast, but to them it’s the way things are and it’s best to go along if you want to be rewarded. The trouble is they don’t realize the cost.

If you think about it, though, they should be angrier than us for having been given the kind of country they inherited. And to have little or no hope of things ever getting better. We had a few years at least.

The mass media and elite leadership will never admit to anything. It would serve no useful purpose for them and illegitimatize their position.

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I agree with almost everything said on this thread. I had a conversation with my 57 yr old girlfriend the other night, which ensued when she asked me why I was still reading about the JFK assassination, why it mattered to me. She knows something fishy went on, has always known that. But she doesn't care to know the details. I think I know why she and millions of others feel this way. They don't seem to comprehend that everything going on around them today might have been different had our heroes of the 60's lived. To be quite cynical, I would add that the Kennedy brothers and MLK and others, even John Lennon (my own addition) didn't stand a chance. I might add Jesus to that list too, just to put a deeper historical spin on my point of view. Movements that seek to overthrow despotic or amoral regimes fail because the persons at the privileged top of the pyramid, whether its the ancient Romans or the US military industrial banking complex, use any and all means necessary to hold on to power.

A great disservice was done to our collective consciousness when the Kennedy brothers were maligned post-mortem and painted as just a slightly different brand of cold warriors and privileged elites. They were anything but, and their violent deaths prove that. Had they lived and succeeded in implementing their visions of a more just democracy, one that genuinely cared about the problems engendered by our reckless and selfish foreign and domestic policies, we would not have had the millions of deaths in Vietnam, or the Iraq war.

As long as the banksters control money and thus control our elected government and our courts, we will continue to be at their mercy.

Just my two cents.

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