David Morales

[David Andrews]

Thank you, Larry.  So he was a free-wheeler under the Commission and didn't owe allegiance to any Mob family or city gang, such as Los Angeles or Chicago?

[Larry Hancock]

I think that's right David and actually other than his original gambling wire job for the syndicate I don't know that he had much to do with it as an entity, he was working for individual guys - connected true, but on their individual projects not anything common.  His strongest connections were with investors on the east coast looking to move money west and launder it in legal investments and with Meyer Lansky who appears to have become his long time mentor.  His dealings with folks like Giancana were on individual projects and investments and of course in typical style how to leverage contacts and information.  Roselli was connected nationally and pretty politically savvy - including connections to DC lobbyists and influence peddlers such as Irving Davidson.

Of course before LA he had worked for godfathers including Capone in Chicago but in that regard he was a hired hand.

It was his relative independence, very unusual in those circles, which made him something special and gave him the power to do negotiations, otherwise he would always have been suspect.  In that regard he was something of a loner in one respect, holding himself apart - of course not from the ladies or the fleshpots of LA and Vegas.

 

 

[Ron Bulman]

I don't expect any smoking guns in any of the files below if they are released.  But it's possible there might be an interesting tidbit in the 61 pages of # 6, or some of the rest of them for that matter.

http://jfkfacts.org/top-6-jfk-files-the-cia-still-keeps-secret/ 

[Ron Bulman]

Morales is a mystery wrapped in an enigma.  Apologies for plagiarism.  There's too much documented not to be suspicious.  Yet nothing concrete.

I read years ago about Morales and thought: heavy set dark complected man, that's what a couple of witnesses said  about a second man on the sixth floor.  So Morales was up there directing things telling walkie talkie man to tell umbrella man to pump his umbrella as a signal to fire again...

There goes what little credibility I might have obtained since joining the forum.

FWIW.  I do not have any faith in such a scenario now.

 

Edited June 17, 2017 by Ron Bulman

[Ron Bulman]

On ‎6‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 0:31 AM, Ron Bulman said:

Morales is a mystery wrapped in an enigma.  Apologies for plagiarism.  There's too much documented not to be suspicious.  Yet nothing concrete.

I read years ago about Morales and thought: heavy set dark complected man, that's what a couple of witnesses said  about a second man on the sixth floor.  So Morales was up there directing things telling walkie talkie man to tell umbrella man to pump his umbrella as a signal to fire again...

There goes what little credibility I might have obtained since joining the forum.

FWIW.  I do not have any faith in such a scenario now.

 

If I may clarify the above.  Just from what I've read that others have dug up.  I don't think Morales would allow himself to be as close to the assassination site as the TSBD, he seems a bit above that operational level.  That he might be involved in the set up and supervision of such an operation is at least conceivable given his area of expertise.  As it is accepted by some that LHO didn't do it.  A conspiracy that someone planned the physical operation of.  Some have suggested, for example, Bill Harvey provided Corsican assassin's.  Somebody provided them with, accommodation, transport, positioning, rehearsal (?), protection, escape???  Corsicans, Cubans, MIC.  Somebody with expertise in such affairs would have walked Dealy Plaza and the surrounding area, maybe after normal working hours to attract less attention (?).  They would have driven the route multiple times.  They would have had after hours access to the Texas School Book Depository well in advance to inspect, plan, and set up.  They might have even set up diversions (like a shot or two from the sixth floor?).

If Morales participated in such and possibly watched the operation, maybe it was from a little further afar.  Say the Postal Annex, all the way across Elm, Main and Continental, the whole of Dealy Plaza.  Postal Inspector Holmes did so, with binoculars.  If I remember right the building did house military offices in addition to other government offices (as did the Post office in New Orleans!).

He did reportedly said "WE got hat SOB".   Sometime later, he felt sick, went home to (?) Arizona(?), was taken to the hospital, no one was allowed to see him, and he died if memory serves me. 

Can anyone discredit or add to support of this supposition?  

Edited June 28, 2017 by Ron Bulman

[Chris Newton]

1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

Can anyone discredit or add to support of this supposition?  

Ron, Thomas Graves may have some info on this but he's off the forum for a little while. He may be back soon.

In the meantime, this is a good starting point:

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/David_Morales_-_We_Took_Care_of_That_SOB.html

[Ron Bulman]

22 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

Ron, Thomas Graves may have some info on this but he's off the forum for a little while. He may be back soon.

In the meantime, this is a good starting point:

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/David_Morales_-_We_Took_Care_of_That_SOB.html

Thanks for the link Chris.  Mary Ferrell is an amazing site, Kudos to Mr. Russ.  Even though I've been frustrated looking for info there before, there is a Lot to look at.  Debra Conway's 10 year old article is the best concise chronological summary of named people in the CIA and JFK administration  regarding Cuba I've never seen before.

The MF bio on Morales made me think, "died of a heart attack"?  I thought I'd read he got sick at home in Arizona and was taken to the hospital where access to his room was prohibited by guards (county/state/federal? I don't remember if it was specified) except for very immediate family.  I still do believe I read something of this but can't remember where.  Prevention of a death bed confession was my point of curiosity.  Maybe something more informative than Howard Hunt's?

So I started looking for corroboration I've not yet found and wound up in "Someone Would Have Talked" by Larry Hancock.  The JFK assassination is so deep, so wide, so many subjects.  It's amazing what one can read and then forget over just seven years.  This thread made me refresh my memory.  If you've not read chapter 8 it's worth the price of the book by itself if your interested in David Morales.  It goes a lot deeper than this thread.  In addition to Roselli he knew Joe Fish.  His best friend was amazed by the number of men in dark suits and sunglasses who attended his funeral.  Tip of the iceberg.   

[Larry Hancock]

Ron, for someone who was so mysterious that the CIA would not even acknowledge he existed to the HSCA, researchers have managed to learn a huge amount about Morales. His career was either unique or very close to it.  Very few men have gone from being low enlisted rank in the Army to being a consultant on counterinsurgency for the Joint Chiefs of Staff -  personally commended by a President for covert operations success along the way.  As far as I can tell he was the only CIA officer also commended in writing for his work during the disastrous Cuba project, for training and preparing the Cuban exiles field intelligence groups, Simply from reading some of his operations reports you realize that he was not only well educated but professionally polished in his chosen career. But from talking to his associates its clear that he was also very emotional, passionately patriotic and rabidly anti-communist.

He is also the only person whose job crossed paths in Miami with everyone from James Angleton and William Harvey to David Phillips, Tony Sforza, Manuel Artime and Henry Hecksher. I write more about his career in both NEXUS and Shadow Warfare, including Angleton's involvement with Morales Cuban exile trainees (who became an asset of the JM/WAVE station and worked domestically as well as in Mexico City) following the fiasco at the Bay of Pigs in 1961.

As to his death and his funeral, I've talked with his best friend about that - who had no doubts based on additional statements from Morales that he had been involved with the Kennedy assassination - and he again asserted that Morales had become nervous over some period of time, essentially isolating himself and his family.  He was concerned about people he had worked with, without saying why. Its probably important to take a look at exactly what was going on with his former associates in the year or two before his death...as well as to consider both the possibility of poison and his last trip to Washinton DC. 

 

 

[Ron Bulman]

"so mysterious that the CIA would not even acknowledge he existed to the HSCA".  So, someone at the HSCA suspected something or they wouldn't have asked the CIA about him?  Your words made me think about his "heart attack" happening in 78, while the HSCA was trying to get other people to testify that had heart attacks before they could as well as others from natural causes, accidents, shootings and suicides.  They also prompted me to look through NEXUS.  

Pg. 185.  "In 1975 Morales retired (his paperwork suggest that the retirement was "involuntary") and eventually moved his family into a highly secure and remote ranch in southern Arizona.  In 1978, he fell ill and died suddenly of a heart attack following a trip to Washington D.C.  His lawyer and friend Bob Walton, had asked him why he spent so much money on alarm systems and other home security - was it because his remote home was only 30 miles from the Mexican border?  Morales replied, 'I'm not worried about those people.  I'm worried about my own'.  Morales old colleague and former head of the AMOT's...Tony Sforza , also died of a sudden hear attack some six months after Morales."

I forget what page but it also mentions him making statements to others about his personal involvement in the capture of Che.  Given his hatred of JFK maybe he was somewhere on site on 11/22. 

[Larry Hancock]

Morales, not necessarily by name, was mentioned during the Garrison inquiry (as The Big Indian) from JM/WAVE and also during Gaeton Fonzi's work on activities at JM/WAVE. Fonzi's interest ultimately led to Bob Dorff connecting with a military trainer who had worked at JM/WAVE and who knew the man by name.  However the HSCA had nothing definite and you need to remember that is SOP not to name CIA officers outside the highest ranks in DC nor officially acknowledge their connection to the Agency.  Today we know so many names we take it for granted but that was not the case back in the seventies or even later up into the nineties.

It should be noted that Morales exaggerated on occasion, while he was involved in the project to get Che, it was Felix Rodriquez who was on site and came up with Che's watch. However there is no doubt Morales hated JFK and felt it was a security risk.  As to his being in Dallas, impossible to say although there are records showing him to be in Miami and actually involved in a major project to exfiltrate Castro's sister out of Cuba as of that date. His chief operations man, Rip Robertson, would be the more likely candidate to be in Dallas although its unlikely we will ever know for sure.  I have no doubt he enjoyed the results, wherever he was.

As to his death, given that Roselli was beginning to drop some names and that did get back to Miami, its certainly possible that someone thought Morales should be gone...

 

 

 

[Ron Bulman]

On ‎7‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 7:58 AM, Larry Hancock said:

Morales, not necessarily by name, was mentioned during the Garrison inquiry (as The Big Indian) from JM/WAVE and also during Gaeton Fonzi's work on activities at JM/WAVE. Fonzi's interest ultimately led to Bob Dorff connecting with a military trainer who had worked at JM/WAVE and who knew the man by name.  However the HSCA had nothing definite and you need to remember that is SOP not to name CIA officers outside the highest ranks in DC nor officially acknowledge their connection to the Agency.  Today we know so many names we take it for granted but that was not the case back in the seventies or even later up into the nineties.

It should be noted that Morales exaggerated on occasion, while he was involved in the project to get Che, it was Felix Rodriquez who was on site and came up with Che's watch. However there is no doubt Morales hated JFK and felt it was a security risk.  As to his being in Dallas, impossible to say although there are records showing him to be in Miami and actually involved in a major project to exfiltrate Castro's sister out of Cuba as of that date. His chief operations man, Rip Robertson, would be the more likely candidate to be in Dallas although its unlikely we will ever know for sure.  I have no doubt he enjoyed the results, wherever he was.

As to his death, given that Roselli was beginning to drop some names and that did get back to Miami, its certainly possible that someone thought Morales should be gone...

 

Then you don't think he was there when Rodriguez took the watch off Che's dead arm...

More seriously, looking for info on another post I came across Tony Soforza  dying of a heart attack six months after Morales heart attack.  I don't know anything about Tony.  Do you?  Would you be willing to share...

 

[Larry Hancock]

Felix said that he was there with Che at his capture and that is documented, he said he took the watch and apparently he has it so that seems pretty well settled.  As to Sforza, yes there is actually a good bit of information on him including Agency files as to his assignments.  Newman is writing about him and I wrote a good bit about him on both SWHT and more about his later assignments in Shadow Warfare....we also know he oversaw an investigation out of JMWAVE after the assassination into possible exile involvement...the report of that investigation disappeared, we only know it happened.  Like many, he is not the mystery that he once was...

 

[Paul Brancato]

4 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

Felix said that he was there with Che at his capture and that is documented, he said he took the watch and apparently he has it so that seems pretty well settled.  As to Sforza, yes there is actually a good bit of information on him including Agency files as to his assignments.  Newman is writing about him and I wrote a good bit about him on both SWHT and more about his later assignments in Shadow Warfare....we also know he oversaw an investigation out of JMWAVE after the assassination into possible exile involvement...the report of that investigation disappeared, we only know it happened.  Like many, he is not the mystery that he once was...

 

Larry - do I read this correctly that Sforza was put in charge a CIA investigation into possible exile involvement in the assassination? How curious. Brings to mind the very curious and in my opinion telling Hoover memo about 'George Bush of the CIA' (was Hoover in the habit of identifying CIA agents in his memos?) being asked to report on Cuban exile activities in the aftermath of the assassination. This memo seems to me to be both a clue and a warning - a clue as to the connections of Bush to the Cuban exiles, which lasted for decades, and a warning to Bush himself that Hoover should be considered untouchable.

[Larry Hancock]

Yes, Paul, the investigation is something I mention in SWHT 2010 and it is documented - actually by a memo from an individual directed to particiapte.  It describes a very comprehensive effort broader than just JMWAVE immediate contacts.  The problem is that it appears that if an official report was produced then it has vanished.  Sforza ordered it but that also raises a question about Shackley since he said under oath that JMWAVE conducted no post assassination JFK related inquires.  Either man could have lied..or both.

On Bush, I have gone into that before repeatedly so I'm not getting into it here again but that whole story has no legs, it was a routine communication to a desk officer named Bush and that's really all there is to it.  The connection of Bush to the CIA have to do with the use of his company as a cover for covert ops in the Gulf of Mexico and a quid pro quo for some business introductions, nothing involving him operationally.  That's my assessment at least but I've given it before so I'll just be repetitive here and let lie..grin.

 

[Paul Brancato]

Larry - I do recall you have previously shared your point of view on the memo. Have you seen other memos written by Hoover identifying CIA agents by name? Of course as you and probably most people reading this know, the other George Bush at the desk said, under oath I think, that the memo was not written to him. I also think there are plenty of reasons to think George HW Bush worked for the CIA starting sometime around 1960. For me the most interesting is his close alliance with Thomas Devine, known by a CIA cryptonym as WUBRINY/1. What do you know of WUBRINY? It seems to be a ptetty well kept secret proprietary operation in Haiti, according to Joan Mellen (Our Man in Haiti page 83), run out of Richard Helms' Deputy Director of Plans office. This book is about George DeMohrenschildt. The more I've pondered this the more I've come to think that all these DeM shenanigans in Haiti are a cover for something other than sisal plantations, or plans to elevate Clemard Joseph Charles to the presidency by getting rid of Duvalier. Mellen does not come up with an identity for WUBRINY/2. Might it have been George Bush?Is there a good explanation in your opinion as to why DeM would write to Bush shortly before his suicide?