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Midnight Blue to Black: the Vanishing Act of the JFK Presidential Limousine SS100X In Broad Daylight


Pamela Brown
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I would like to start a thread on my upcoming NID presentation both to ask your help on a few loose ends that I have and to be able to discuss aspects of it as well.

First, I am still trying to nail down just who decided on the order of the vehicles in the Dallas motorcade on 11.22.63. Please point me in the right direction...

Thanks...

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Pamela, as I understand it the actual vehicle order was decided by the local political committee with Jack Puterbaugh, acting advance man, as their main contact...I've also documented that Puterbaugh was in routine communication with Johnson's aide Cliff Carter at that point in time although Carter himself was not in Dallas for the meetings.

I should also note that reportedly some of the motorcade positioning numbers were switched at the airport that morning and some vehicles were out of the designated sequence.

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Pamela, as I understand it the actual vehicle order was decided by the local political committee with Jack Puterbaugh, acting advance man, as their main contact...I've also documented that Puterbaugh was in routine communication with Johnson's aide Cliff Carter at that point in time although Carter himself was not in Dallas for the meetings.

I should also note that reportedly some of the motorcade positioning numbers were switched at the airport that morning and some vehicles were out of the designated sequence.

[emphasis added by T. Graves]

Larry,

That very interesting!

I wonder if someone went over Puterbaugh's head in deciding such things at Love Field. Do you remember if any significant changes in the motorcade were made, like moving the press buses farther back in line?

Thanks,

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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Tommy, I do cover some of that in SWHT so let me see if I can remember what I wrote...grin. Perhaps the most significant change was the movement of two motorcycles scheduled for the rear of the president's limo to much further back, one of the officers was questioned about that - his name is in the book, I don't recall it - and stated that they were told to move from their slotted position by an individual who had come from the Vice President's car - its likely they assumed he was Secret Service. In addition to that, I think the press were moved further back.

Of course the two things that remain most inconsistent is the lack of a photo truck leading the president's car, something common in political motorcades which this was....and the positioning of the president in a lead position rather than somewhere within the sequence of vehicles, after all you usually don't lead with your major figure.

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Agents Win Lawson and Roger Warner (later a CIA agent) were in charge of the order of vehicles in Dallas (see chapter 6 of my book).

Things that happened on 11/18/63 that did not happen in Dallas:

-agents on the rear of the limo (other than Clint Hill, briefly, 4 times before they got to Dealey Plaza);

-military aide in front seat between driver and agent in charge (McHugh was asked, for the first time in Dallas, not to ride there!);

-press photographers flatbed truck in front of limo (canceled at last minute at Love Field);

-fast speed of cars (slow in Dallas);

-ASAIC Boring on trip (SAIC Behn and Boring always accompanied JFK in motorcades. A third-stringer, Kellerman, goes in their place);

-multi story rooftops guarded;

-multiple motorcycles running next to JFK in a wedge formation (they did 11/18-11/22/63 [morning in Fort Worth]...until Dallas);

-White House Press Photographer Cecil Stoughton riding in follow-up car taking photos (he did 11/18-11/21/63...until they got to Dallas);

-Pierre Salinger on trip (Assistant Malcolm Kilduff makes his first trip on his own to Texas; Salinger said he missed only "one or two trips" with JFK...Texas was one of them!);

-Dr Burkley close to JFK (Burkley protested being placed far away from JFK in Dallas, for this was the only time, save in Rome, this ever happened to him);

[provided by Vince Palamara]

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"Perhaps the most significant change was the movement of two motorcycles scheduled for the rear of the president's limo to much further back, one of the officers was questioned about that - his name is in the book, I don't recall it - and stated that they were told to move from their slotted position by an individual who had come from the Vice President's car - its likely they assumed he was Secret Service"

Larry, this is blatant 'LBJ did it' stuff. Was this confirmed by anyone other than the motorcycle police officer? If he was being honest, this sounds, to me at least, like a guess on his part. I mean, did he 'know' where the gentleman came from that told them to pull back?

I am certainly not questioning your research, because from reading some of SWHT, it is clear the amount of cross referencing, background,etc. that was done before you ever put pen to paper. It just seems that this officer had his opinion on who was responsible for the assassination and this was his opportunity to go public with it.

Edited by Terry Adams
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Terry, at the time I doubt the motorcycle policeman thought much about it. And no, nobody other than the officer apparently thought much of it either, I gather things were pretty hectic at the airport, for one thing they were not really prepared for JFK and Jackie to go walking into the crowd as they did. I haven't been into this area for ages, and I don't exactly recall what the cycle positions were supposed to be, as I recall some of the cycles had already been pulled back further during the work sessions and an innocent answer to that would be that it was a political event and there was to be maximum crowd visibility for JFK.

Given the official story and the angle of the shots, the officer might well have thought it would have made little difference, given the probable frontal shot/s it may not have.

Also, given that Johnson's guys were definitely in charge or organizing the motorcade, such a last minute action would hardly be necessary....unless of course the officer had mistaken his assigned position.

Now having said that I thought it was really suspicious myself when I first encountered it and that's why its in the book along with a lot of other information relating to Puterbaugh and Carter and the planning. I'm sure someone knows the details better than I, including the officers name which I can't seem to locate at the moment...but unfortunately its a big book ... I probably shouldn't have brought it up without having the facts at hand, I will search further. Probably teaches me I need to stop this sort of thing and stay with my current focus rather than trying to delve back too far...

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OK, I'm making a little progress. Pamela, if you have SWHT check pages 316-317 and that will give you a list of issues that occurred during the planning of the motorcade, including the fact that the cars iinitially designated as numbers two and three ended up being positioned as 16 and 18, obviously moving up JFK to the very front of the motorcade. There was also such local media controversy over the absence of the camera truck that the HSCA pursued the issue - however the result was that SS advance man Lawson stated that Puterbaugh was in charge of the protocol of the vehicles including seating and sequence. Puterbaugh himself made no mention of such things in his statements and as far as I can tell was never re-interviewed. I do recall from digging into all the advance meeting reports that many of the folks involved in the planning seemed to have assumed, since Puterbaugh showed up with Lawson, that he was actually with the Secret Service.

Now to see if I can find the motorcycle thing for Terry...

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Mr. BELIN - All right. Coming down to November 22, 1963, what was your occupation on that day?
Mr. BAKER - I was assigned to ride a motorcycle.
Mr. BELIN - And where were you assigned to ride the motorcycle?
Mr. BAKER - At this particular day in the office up there before we went out, I was, my partner and I, we received instructions to ride right beside the President's car.
Mr. BELIN - About when was this that you received these instructions?
Mr. BAKER - Let's see, I believe we went to work early that day, somewhere around 8 o'clock.
Mr. BELIN - And from whom did you receive your original instructions to ride by the side of the President's car?
Mr. BAKER - Our sergeant is the one who gave us the instructions. This is all made up in the captain's office, I believe.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. DULLES - Captain Curry?
Mr. BAKER - Chief Curry; our captain is Captain Lawrence.
Mr. BELIN - Were these instructions ever changed?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir. When we got to the airport, our sergeant instructed me that there wouldn't be anybody riding beside the President's car.
Mr. BELIN - Did he tell you why or why not?
Mr. BAKER - No, sir. We had several occasions where we were assigned there and we were moved by request.
Mr. BELIN - On that day, you mean?
Mr. BAKER - Well, that day and several other occasions when I have escorted them.
Mr. BELIN - On that day when did you ride or where were you supposed to ride after this assignment was changed?
Mr. BAKER - They just--the sergeant told us just to fall in beyond it, I believe he called it the press, behind the car.
Mr. BELIN - Beyond the press?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Did he tell you this after the President's plane arrived at the airport or was it before?
Mr. BAKER - It seemed like it was after he arrived out there.
Mr. BELIN - Had you already seen him get out of the plane?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - About what time was it before the motorcade left that you were advised of this, was it just before or 5 or 10 minutes before, or what?
Mr. BAKER - It was 5 or 10 minutes before.

BG

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Thank you all for your quick and thorough responses. I'll reply in more detail tomorrow.

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  • 4 weeks later...

"Midnight Blue to Black -- the Vanishing Act of the JFK Presidential Limousine SS100X In Broad Daylight" presented at JFKLancer NID, November 23, 2013 text now available. Exhibits to follow shortly!

http://ss100x.wordpress.com/2013/12/05/midnight-blue-to-black-the-vanishing-act-of-the-jfk-presidential-limousine-ss100x-in-broad-daylight/

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OK, I'm making a little progress. Pamela, if you have SWHT check pages 316-317 and that will give you a list of issues that occurred during the planning of the motorcade, including the fact that the cars iinitially designated as numbers two and three ended up being positioned as 16 and 18, obviously moving up JFK to the very front of the motorcade.

Hi Larry,

Thanks so much for the great job you and everyone at JFKLancer did at the Dallas Conference. It was awesome.

I am not finding that info on those pages...:-0

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I have a few quick comments on the presentation, namely :

1. How was the Z film shown in 1964 when Life had the ownership and had it hidden away?

What corroboration is there for this?;

2. Clint Hill rode on the back of the limo at various times that day. See his book, Me and Mrs. Kennedy;

3. Both Mr. Hill and Jackie stated quite clearly that Jackie was trying to retrieve a piece of JFK's skull. There is no evidence that she was trying to escape the vehicle.

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