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What happened to this place?


Bill Byas
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Hi Dave

I hope you are sitting down when you read this. I'm afraid I have to agree with you about the rifle being examined in the photos from the TSBD. There is no doubt, in my mind, that it is either an M38 or M91/38 Carcano. (now take a couple of seconds to wipe the coffee spray off your screen LOL)

The trigger guard is somewhat puzzling but, upon examination, the rear of the trigger guard is not really a continuous curve but, rather, two straight edges joined by a short curve. As you say, the right lighting would give the impression of a square corner.

It is certainly not a 7.65mm Argentine Mauser carbine, as the shape of the magazine is wrong and its trigger guard is even more rounded at the rear. Plus, this carbine does not use the Mannlicher "en bloc" clip system, and would not have the characteristic slot at the bottom of the magazine (where the empty clip falls out), seen in these photos.

The closest thing I could find was the Steyr-Mannlicher 1895 carbine. It also uses the "en bloc" clip and has a groove in the stock, similar to the M91/38. However, its trigger guard is even more rounded at the rear than the 7.65 A.M., and its magazine is not a straight line profile from the trigger guard but has, instead, quite an indentation between trigger guard and magazine.

What I find puzzling about these photos is the amount of handling this rifle received at the TSBD, without the empty clip falling out the bottom of the magazine. As you well know, when the last cartridge is chambered, there is nothing holding the clip up and gravity causes it to fall out the bottom of the magazine. Yet, the first anyone sees of this clip is when it is carried on the street from the TSBD to DPD offices.

I am more than prepared to be proven wrong about the rifle in the photos, though, if someone can produce a rifle that matches these photos, other than the M91/38 Carcano.

Edited by Robert Prudhomme
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As someone who doesn't have a dog in this fight, I think it is important for all sides to get a chance to have their say. The people who are very sure of their position will be able to defend their posts.

Seeing robust debate is excellent; watching people throw insults against one another is deplorable.

I believe that people here should allow - indeed encourage - those with contrary views to participate here. Taking on an opponent and invalidating their assertions through logic and evidence is the most effective way to negate them.

As long as people can remain civil, then debate regarding your favorite topic is the essence of a great forum.

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I am of the firm opinion ( as of now, Dave LOL- forget 2007 for a moment!) that Oswald was framed and, of course, the rifle was his, etc etc etc. I think someone ELSE fired it. Barry Ernest's book is compelling. As Chief Jesse Curry said, "No one has ever been able to put OSWALD with a rifle in his hands in that window" [Euins saw an African American; several people saw TWO people; Brennan is unreliable, to put it delicately]

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