Al Carrier Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Shanet,I try to keep an open mind to all possibilities. My opinions on the Tramps has evolved over the years and one thing I will say is that I agree the Tall Tramp was Charles Harrelson. I do not believe Harrelson was a part of the assassination team itself but as an actor. Kind of an irony given what his son attempts to do with varying degrees of success. I do not believe the Old Tramp was Holt. FWIW. James <{POST_SNAPBACK}> James, You know my feelings on the look-a-likes from Lancer so I will not repeat them here. My concern I will share is the use of Harrelson in any way. He would later, if not at the time become severely addicted to drugs that would create a severe paranoid mindset and lead to his arrest of the Texas Judge. If he would have been utilized in DP, then why would they allow him to continue to survive under his drug addicted state and allow for a leak in any way? This is totally contradictory for Covert Operation Security, as those who would be allowed to survive beyond the operation would still be controlled. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Richards Posted November 6, 2004 Author Share Posted November 6, 2004 (edited) Hi Al. Nice to see you here. Your expertise will be a valuable addition to discussions. Regarding Harrelson, I don't think he had a clue what was going on regarding the assassination. I also think there were a few other Mob type guys wandering around Dealey Plaza similarly in the dark. If the Tramp photos were not staged to create a disinformation campaign, then they have certainly served that purpose. James Edited November 6, 2004 by James Richards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wim Dankbaar Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 (edited) James, do you believe that Holt was the man with the sunglasses on the far right of the New Orleans picture with Oswald before the Trade Mart? (Wim) No I don't. I believe the man photographed was a Brigade 2506 member and connected to Alpha 66 with tentacles into the DRE. I do not know his name which is why I have not said too much regarding him. When I get his name, I will present what I have and his connections to the events in New Orleans. James, why are you following the hard way, preferring an unknown candidate over a man, who SAID he is the guy, looks like a twin of him, and identifies TWO other guys on that scene? Do you notice the other ID's by Holt ? Leroy Young and Bud Belcher (son of Frank Belcher of the Belcher Aircraft family)? Do these names mean anything to you, James? Do you think they were not real persons? Do you believe Chauncey made them up? (Wim) The name Leroy Young is known to me. I believe these are real people and not made up. In that circle with Young you can add Hector Varone, Juan Peron, Dick Whatley and a Guatemala training camp. Yes these names are important as they link solidly to Manuel Artime and Tony Varona. Can you share what you know about Leroy Young? You may be surprised with what I know about Holt. I do believe his story regarding his involvement with the forged SS identifications which were ordered by Twombly. However, I believe that the ID's were delivered before Holt says they were. That aside, there is much to be learned from Holt. I have no interest in trying to discredit anyone. There are solid elements of truth out there but it is like a shell game. One thing I know about Agency assets and contract employees, they never tell the full story. James, Holt had no reason whatsoever to lie to his own daughter, knowing he was dying of cancer. But apart from that there is lots of evidence for his story that no one has ever seen. Wim IMO. James Edited November 6, 2004 by Wim Dankbaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Richards Posted November 6, 2004 Author Share Posted November 6, 2004 (edited) Wim, We may have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't have all the names involved yet but when I do, I will post the information and people can make up their own minds. Leroy Young, Dick Whatley, Hector Varone and Juan Peron are a part of that. I do think Holt was a part of the events in Dallas but I don't think he offered all he knew. FWIW. James Edited November 6, 2004 by James Richards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wim Dankbaar Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 So you believe Holt lied to his daughter before dying? Wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Crowe Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Im sure many have lied at there death bed, especially to loved ones, if you think about what can happen to say your daughter if she decides to tell the truth, she can end up dead herself. One of the things that sticks out in the photo James posted is the guy has HAIRY arms, Like the man associated with Alpha 66. I dont recall Holt having dark hairy arms like that from the pictures I have seen of Holt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Geraghty Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 with the amount of people connected to the assassination that were in the plaza on the day in question does anybody believe that there were other people who could be set up as oswald had been, is it possible that the tramps (one of them being harrelson) were brought in in case oswald got away and they had to pin it on someone else, perhaps the mafia? any thoughts? john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Richards Posted November 8, 2004 Author Share Posted November 8, 2004 (edited) John, I do believe that there was a plan to implicate several Mafia members if needed. Let's face it, the Mafia did it routine got some play after the HSCA. Guys like Ferrie, Ruby and Harrelson all spring to mind as potential fall guys. James Edited November 8, 2004 by James Richards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wim Dankbaar Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Holt didn't have hairy arms. Nor has the man in the New Orleans picture. Wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Richards Posted November 8, 2004 Author Share Posted November 8, 2004 Holt didn't have hairy arms. Nor has the man in the New Orleans picture. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think we have some light and shadow issues with these images here. I can see how Ryan would interpret the guy as having hairy arms as I did the same. The first attachment below shows the guy who I suspect as being in New Orleans on the left. The second attachment I believe is better light wise for the man on the far right. FWIW. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Plumlee Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 (edited) Hi James and all, First of all , I have not "invested a lot" in Holt's story. But even if I had it is totally irrelevant. But I will say this: Holt is the strongest witness a JFK researcher can dream of. There's just a lot of his story that the public (thus also you) does not know. I believe there is a reason for that. I think James, as a fair and honest researcher, would quickly turn around once he would see the evidence. James, do you believe that Holt was the man with the sunglasses on the far right of the New Orleans picture with Oswald before the Trade Mart? See halfway this page: http://jfkmurdersolved.com/holt1.htm Do you notice the other ID's by Holt ? Leroy Young and Bud Belcher (son of Frank Belcher of the Belcher Aircraft family)? Do these names mean anything to you, James? Do you think they were not real persons? Do you believe Chauncey made them up? Why the hell is no researcher looking into this? The names that Holt mentions that have never been heard before in connection to this case, goes on and on and on: George Reynolds, Philip Twombly, Joseph Ball, Frank Belcher, Lloyd Cobb, Warren de Brueys, Thomas Davis and on and on. BTW, I just found another (half) interview with Holt on the net: I think it's very interesting and would appreciate some help in locating the other part. Unfortuanltely ther's a lot of typos in it, but that doesn't really matter: http://karws.gso.uri.edu/Marsh/Jfk-conspiracy/HOLT.TXT Wim <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wim: I have the complete transcript. Not long before Chauncy died we exchanged information and marked the (his rough draft) manuscript. I think this was around 1994-5; not sure of the date it could have been earlier. I marked areas I was familiar with; example the ID's and "silencers" when and where they were picked up. Information about "Curtain Studios" ect.. The aircraft 'Belcher own and where and when it was parked in Arizona and California. And other things were marked on my copy, as well as his. The marked information was between us at the time. Most of the marked information concerning me and other people Chauncy knew goes back to and before his daughter was borned. No way could it have been altered after the fact. In 1969 at the Caravan Inn in Phoenix these same names appeared and were descussed and their linage was ploted..... interesting man, Chauncy.... Tosh Edited November 8, 2004 by William Plumlee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 There is no doubt that E. Howard Hunt is the Old Man tramp. Hunt's face matches down to the smallest detail. Jack White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wim Dankbaar Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 (edited) Jack, Apart from the sheer impossibility that a high level operative like Howard Hunt would dress up as a tramp, I say your picture is misleading. Please post that FULL picture of Hunt next to the FULL picture of the tramp. Let's specifically have a look at the ears then. Wim Edited November 9, 2004 by Wim Dankbaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Robbins Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Shanet,I try to keep an open mind to all possibilities. My opinions on the Tramps has evolved over the years and one thing I will say is that I agree the Tall Tramp was Charles Harrelson. I do not believe Harrelson was a part of the assassination team itself but as an actor. Kind of an irony given what his son attempts to do with varying degrees of success. I do not believe the Old Tramp was Holt. FWIW. James James, Do you have a photo of Eddie Bayo you could compare with a photo of "Frenchy"? Thank you, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Richards Posted April 10, 2007 Author Share Posted April 10, 2007 Shanet,I try to keep an open mind to all possibilities. My opinions on the Tramps has evolved over the years and one thing I will say is that I agree the Tall Tramp was Charles Harrelson. I do not believe Harrelson was a part of the assassination team itself but as an actor. Kind of an irony given what his son attempts to do with varying degrees of success. I do not believe the Old Tramp was Holt. FWIW. James James, Do you have a photo of Eddie Bayo you could compare with a photo of "Frenchy"? Thank you, Chuck Chuck, Here is Eddie Bayo circa summer of 1963. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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