Secret Service Agents Response

[Thomas Graves]

Thomas, I don't understand what you are trying to say.

Please look at animated gif.

HILL looks toward the gk or the limo after Z-190, LANDIS, READY and HICKEY simultaneously look toward the gk at the same moment, HILL continues to look at the limo or into the FU car until at least Z-255 as recorded in ALTGENS #6

That is fact.

Also a fact that HILL can be seen in NIX Film running toward limo prior to Z-313, so HILL started to move to limo prior to hearing the first shot from a high powered rifle and seconds after hearing a popping sound that apparently came from the direction of the gk.

The only thing that changed in the limo from Z-255 to Z-313 was CONNALLY laying back on top of NELLIE at Z-290, I am saying CONNALLYS action is the most likely cause for HILL to react and move to the limo.

[emphasis added by T. Graves]

Robert,

I already looked at your GD animated gif in post #175.

A couple of times.

Let me rephrase it for you.

I don't think Hill started looking to HIS right as early as you think he did.

What's so hard to understand about that?

At the point where you think he STARTS looking to HIS right in post #175, I think he's still looking almost straight ahead at JFK or Jackie in the limo.

Jeez...

--Tommy

edited and bumped

Edited October 6, 2014 by Thomas Graves

[Robert Mady]

Thomas, if you read the thread you might understand HILL, READY, LANDIS and HICKEY react at the same moment by looking to their right, HILL said in his statement that he heard the 'firecracker' like sound and as his gaze was crossing the limo he became aware of strange activity in the limo. The point is HILL reacted in the same moment as the other agents and in the same manner by looking to the right, the Z-film shows that HILL indeed did look to his right, did he look to the gk at any point, it is not possible to positively ascertain. Again the point is this was the moment of the first shot and the SSA that heard the 'firecracker' like sound reacted by looking toward the source of the sound which appears to have been in front and to their right.

Is it not most significant that READY, LANDIS and HICKEY all failed to disclose in their reports the fact that they reacted at the sound of the 'firecracker' like sound by looking towards the gk? And instead substituted the WC/R version by stating they first reacted by looking toward the rear?

The other point that is significant is that the four agents that heard the first noise and reacted to it looked to their right, NOT to the rear, and they continued looking to their right at least until Z-212.

HILL until at least Z-255. That is a fact.

If you can't see it, let it go, we sometimes see what we choose to see.

If you still disagree, that is ok, we will just disagree.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Robert Mady

[David Andrews]

We might throw into the mix that Hill, who was assigned to Jackie and - if his later writing is to be accepted - had formed a personal attachment to her, was bound to be eyeballlng her to check her reactions when separated from her. In a motorcade that can take a bit of staring, and some surveying of her surroundings.

Edited October 6, 2014 by David Andrews

[Robert Mady]

READY: "At this time the U.S. Secret Service follow-up car seemed to slow "

LANDIS; ' In fact, I recall Special Agent Jack Ready saying, "What was it? A Fire Cracker?" I remarked, "I don't know; I don't see any smoke.'' '

READY tells us that the follow-up car slowed, this was either in response to avoid hitting CLINT HILL that was running towards the limo and had crossed in front of the follow-up car or after the first high powered rifle shot. It is most likely that HILLs maneuver is what caused the follow up car to slow or momentarily stop.

LANDIS tells us READYS reaction, they heard a 'firecracker' like noise, they do not see smoke and are confused by the noise. Where did they look, toward the noise - first... then scanning the crowd they turned by Z-255 to look behind the follow up car because they were concerned enough to identify where this noise came from and if it was ultimately threatening.

[Robert Mady]

Contrast the SSA reaction to the 'firecracker' like noise with CONNALLY immediately identifying the first sound he hears to be from a high powered rifle and immediately understands the gunfire to be an assassination attempt.

Then the SSA do not react until CONNALLY lays back on top of NELLIE, HILL moves to limo after Z-290.

CONNALLY says the shots came so fast he thought there must be more than one shooter...maybe three shooters.

WE are being told two stories that do not corroborate one another unless we understand that this is two parts of the assassination.

CONNALLY does not hear the 'firecracker' sound, he first hears the high powered rifle shot that caused the fatal head wound, the next two high powered rifle shots come very rapidly. Yes I know this is not what CONNALLY stated, plain and simple, same as the SSA, CONNALLY had to lie about what really happened, but there remains shards of the truth which are evident, once the assassination is understood.

The SSA must keep with the WC/R story line that starts at some undetermined time but definitively ends at the fatal head wound. This is why we have reports from agents like HILL who claimed the first shot hit KENNEDY the second shot then caused the fatal head wound. HILL could not include the third and fourth shots because they were out of the scope of the storyline that was demanded they maintain.

[Robert Mady]

HILL: "On the left hand side was a grass area with a few people scattered along it observing the motorcade passing, and I was visually scanning these people when I heard a noise similar to a firecracker. The sound came from my right rear and I immediately moved my head in that direction. In so doing, my eyes had to cross the Presidential automobile and I saw the President hunch forward and then slump to his left. I jumped from the Follow-up car and ran toward the Presidential automobile. I heard a second firecracker type noise but it had a different sound-- like the sound of shooting a revolver into something hard. I saw the President slump more toward his left."

Discrepancies within the implausible WC/R story is evident in HILLS report.

If we were to take HILLS report at face value, HILL hears the 'firecracker' like sound, then sees KENNEDY 'hunch forward', this has to be either after Z-190 or lets say after Z-210, this means HILL is telling us he sees KENNEDY in trouble and then reacts... 5.6 seconds or 4.4 seconds later.

Is it not more reasonable that HILL like all the other SSA did not understand the 'firecracker' like noise was a threat and that HILL only moves to the limo to determine if the occupants needed assistance after HILL sees CONNALLY lay back on top of NELLIE?

Also there is no logical way to explain how HILL missed the sound of a second shot from a high powered rifle that was supposedly fired before Z-313. If the second shot from a high powered rifle was fired at Z-230 that means HILL still waited for 3.3 seconds to react.

It is that simple, there is nothing complicated about the assassination if you understand what happened.

Try incorporating the four shot scenario with other testimony, you may be shocked that almost all testimony will corroborate this scenario with a very few exception, most notably from government employees or news media.

Just keep in mind the word 'slumped' does not describe KENNEDYs appearance following the 'firecracker' like sound it applies to KENNEDY following the first high powered rifle shot, because most witnesses did not hear the 'firecracker' like sound and those that did had no awareness that KENNEDY had been wounded by it. And that is a fact.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Robert Mady

[Robert Mady]

Contrast what HILL states and how he reacted to READY who can be seen to react to the sound of a high powered rifle within a split second and can be observed attempting to move to the limo.

That how fast SSA react to the sound of gunfire.

[Robert Mady]

Mr. BALL. Did you look?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir; I looked back to my right.
Mr. BALL. After which shot?
Mr. MARTIN. After the first shot.
Mr. BALL. You looked to your right?
Mr. MARTIN. I looked back to my right.
Mr. BALL. What did you look at?
Mr. MARTIN. At the building on the right there.
Mr. BALL. Is that the Texas School Book Depository Building?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes; it Is.
Mr. BALL. Did you see anything?
Mr. MARTIN. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. As you turned to the right, did you turn your motorcycle also, or did you turn your body?
Mr. MARTIN. I believe I just turned my body. I don't believe I ever turned my motor. I believe I kept my motor headed down Elm Street - west on Elm.
Mr. BALL. Did you take any notice of the President after the first shot?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir; I looked at the President after I heard the shot and he was leaning forward - I could see the left side of his face. At the time he had no expression on his face.

MARTINs testimony is a complete and utter lie, MARTIN can not be observed to turn to the rear as he explicitly claimed. This testimony is nothing but the result of pressure from the WC or FBI to have MARTIN create a bold faced lie that corroborates the WC/R theory.

Visual proof that MARTIN committed perjury is in the record of the Zapruder film and sprocket hole area, see animated gif which is from Z-133 to sometime past Z-255 - just don't have the exact frame number in front of me at this time.

What is also important to understand is that neither MARTIN, HARGIS or CHANEY can be seen to respond to any noise until Z-313.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Robert Mady

[Robert Mady]

Martins, testimony is an utter lie, unless you realize he is claiming the first shot he hears is the high powered rifle shot at Z-313.

This is when he turns to look, but looks first towards the rail yards not the TSBD.

[Robert Mady]

This is off topic, but instead of starting another thread I just need an answer does anyone know the identity of two witnesses that are on the ground to the right of ZAPRUDER?

Edited October 7, 2014 by Robert Mady

[Chris Davidson]

Beatrice and Charles Hester

[Robert Mady]

Chris, CHARLES HESTER is wearing black pants and black coat, MRS HESTER is wearing dark brown.

Chris, you must be right, I don't understand the color differences but this is where the HESTERS are in the WEIGMAN film - thanks

Edited October 8, 2014 by Robert Mady

[Thomas Graves]

A problem with "researchers' is the failure to comprehend significant evidence that conflicts with the story that builds their personal assassination scenario.

This animated gif should be an ah-ha moment.

The VP vehicle is following behind the Queen Mary, it should be apparent that the VP vehicle has not slowed or stopped after the sound of supposedly two shots from a high powered rifle. Something is wrong with awareness that does not comprehend there is no evidence that witnesses or agents reacted to gunfire until after Z-313.

[emphasis added by T. Graves]

Other evidence of this is every witness seen in this gif, IS unaware an assassination is underway or that any shots have been fired.

[...]

--Tommy

PS By the way, I think the guy walking across the street from the direction of the Terminal Annex Building wearing the dark sport coat and white pants could very well be Pedro Diaz Lanz. The same guy is shown standing at the Elm street curb on the "infield grass" right after the assassination, and may be the same guy that Tan Jacket Man possibly hands something to in a secretive manner in the Hughes film.

Question for Robert Mady:

Who took the film you put in this post with the little red box around Charles Brehm?

It's always a good idea to give the photographer credit, Robert, if you know who it is. It's also useful for other researchers and students of the assassination so they don't have to spend a lot of time wracking their brain and / or doing Google searches to determine who shot / filmed it.

Thank you,

--Tommy

Edited October 9, 2014 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

A problem with "researchers' is the failure to comprehend significant evidence that conflicts with the story that builds their personal assassination scenario.

This animated gif should be an ah-ha moment.

The VP vehicle is following behind the Queen Mary, it should be apparent that the VP vehicle has not slowed or stopped after the sound of supposedly two shots from a high powered rifle. Something is wrong with awareness that does not comprehend there is no evidence that witnesses or agents reacted to gunfire until after Z-313.

[emphasis added by T. Graves]

Other evidence of this is every witness seen in this gif, IS unaware an assassination is underway or that any shots have been fired.

[...]

--Tommy

PS By the way, I think the guy walking across the street from the direction of the Terminal Annex Building wearing the dark sport coat and white pants could very well be Pedro Diaz Lanz. The same guy is shown standing at the Elm street curb on the "infield grass" right after the assassination, and may be the same guy that Tan Jacket Man possibly hands something to in a secretive manner in the Hughes film.

Question for Robert Mady:

Who took the film you put in this post with the little red box around Charles Brehm?

It's always a good idea to give the photographer credit, Robert, if you know who it is. It's also useful for other researchers and students of the assassination so they don't have to spend a lot of time wracking their brain and / or doing Google searches to determine who shot / filmed it.

Thank you,

--Tommy

I just noticed that the woman in the pink dress seems to be taking a photograph.

--Tommy

[Robert Mady]

Thomas Graves Thanks for the questions

The film is BRONSON Film

The animated gif was made by Chris Davidson

I have asked Chris what the significance of the red box is but have not received a response from him, even though he has suggested the red box has significance. I believe this is where ALTGENS was located as well as two additional witnesses.

Left to right, BREHM and his son as well as BEVERLY OLIVER can be seen to the right of the rear end of the follow-up car at the end of the gif.

Posted #162: the woman that appears to be taking a photograph was pointed out and the forum was asked if she could be identified and if there is a photograph available that is associated with her.

It is conjecture that she is indeed taking a photograph although it certainly appears that she is.

Also of note is how short the BRONSON Film is, my guess is what is available is a portion edited from the original film.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Robert Mady