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The red box in the Bronson clip surrounds the dark-skinned gentleman we see in the background of extant Z entering at Z326.

Jackie's right hand rises at Z326 while the dark-skinned man is still jogging/running.

In Bronson's clip, as Jackie's right hand rises, it appears as though the dark-skinned man is walking.

chris

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Thomas Graves Thanks for the questions

The film is BRONSON Film

The animated gif was made by Chris Davidson

I have asked Chris what the significance of the red box is but have not received a response from him, even though he has suggested the red box has significance. I believe this is where ALTGENS was located as well as two additional witnesses.

Left to right, BREHM and his son as well as BEVERLY OLIVER can be seen to the right of the rear end of the follow-up car at the end of the gif.

Posted #162: the woman that appears to be taking a photograph was pointed out and the forum was asked if she could be identified and if there is a photograph available that is associated with her.

It is conjecture that she is indeed taking a photograph although it certainly appears that she is.

Also of note is how short the BRONSON Film is, my guess is what is available is a portion edited from the original film.

The blonde lady wearing a pink dress on the grass in the Bronson clip is standing still, looking in the direction of the limousine, and if you look closely you can see that she has both hands raised to her face.

Judging by the shadows on the grass, she's not looking into the sun so there's no reason for her to be shielding her eyes from it.

I think she's taking a photograph.

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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Chris, concerning man found within the red box of the BRONSON clip / Zapruder film.

It looks to me like he is running and then comes to a halt in the Zapruder film. There is not much information in the Bronson film, but the Nix film also shows that he was moving, presumably running and coming to a halt.

Why is this person of interest?

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Thomas Graves Thanks for the questions

The film is BRONSON Film

The animated gif was made by Chris Davidson

I have asked Chris what the significance of the red box is but have not received a response from him, even though he has suggested the red box has significance. I believe this is where ALTGENS was located as well as two additional witnesses.

Left to right, BREHM and his son as well as BEVERLY OLIVER can be seen to the right of the rear end of the follow-up car at the end of the gif.

Posted #162: the woman that appears to be taking a photograph was pointed out and the forum was asked if she could be identified and if there is a photograph available that is associated with her.

It is conjecture that she is indeed taking a photograph although it certainly appears that she is.

Also of note is how short the BRONSON Film is, my guess is what is available is a portion edited from the original film.

The blonde lady wearing a pink dress on the grass in the Bronson clip is standing still, looking in the direction of the limousine, and if you look closely you can see that she has both hands raised to her face.

Judging by the shadows on the grass, she's not looking into the sun so there's no reason for her to be shielding her eyes from it.

I think she's taking a photograph.

--Tommy :sun

edited and bumped

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It's possible to properly stabilise the film and then see ther\ elbows and then deduce that a camera is unlikely. I don't know. I did one years ago but only shared it with Aqbuat privately becuaue he had jsut posted his version and I falt it added nothing at that time to post my version. Unfortunately all those files are locked in a non functioning laptop. I'll get around to reviving that some time and in the meantime have no inclination to do it again. Suffice to say there is insufficient proof to definitely say she has a camera.

I'm inclined to say she does not. I can't definitely confirm that but I strongly believe it can be.

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It's possible to properly stabilise the film and then see ther\ elbows and then deduce that a camera is unlikely. I don't know. I did one years ago but only shared it with Aqbuat privately becuaue he had jsut posted his version and I falt it added nothing at that time to post my version. Unfortunately all those files are locked in a non functioning laptop. I'll get around to reviving that some time and in the meantime have no inclination to do it again. Suffice to say there is insufficient proof to definitely say she has a camera.

I'm inclined to say she does not. I can't definitely confirm that but I strongly believe it can be.

Yes, John, you're right.

"Totally wrong angle of the elbows."

She's probably just blowing her nose as the President goes by.

Or checking her makeup.

LOL

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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Thomas, the woman standing still may be assumed to be taking a photograph or not, it does not matter either way if there is not a photograph known to be in existence that was taken. The point is that she would have been in an ideal location to capture the assassination and in the back ground the knoll. To discuss whether or not she was taking a photograph is unproductive and ultimately does not matter either way unless we have knowledge of who she was and what happened to the photograph if one was taken.

I tend to agree that she appears to be taking a photograph based on arms raised and her stance, although I have not seen the photographic evidence that John Dolva claims to have analyzed.

Edited by Robert Mady
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[...]

[W]hether or not she was taking a photograph [...] ultimately does not matter either way unless we have knowledge of who she was and what happened to the photograph if one was taken.

[...]

Robert,

Your grasp of the obvious is truly amazing.

--Tommy :sun

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  • 3 weeks later...
I decided to publish a gif to prove once and for all the fallacy of JACKIE climbing onto the trunk of the limo to retrieve a bone.


The gif consists of frames Z-313 to Z-381 (just the odd frames) captured from MPI DVD


Please analyze the animated gif attached.

You can realize that:

1) AT Z-313 JACKIE is bent forward looking closely into the face of her husband.

2) The fatal head wound blow-out the back of JFKs head projected debris toward HARGIS.

3) There is no possible way JACKIE is going to see the debris based on her position and direction of her gaze.

4) Another HPR shot comes at Z-325 which causes JACKIE to try to escape from the limo - for whatever reason she tries to climb out over the trunk A second HPR shot is the reason JACKIE moves out of the limo! NOTE JACKIE is moving to the rear and out of the limo without looking toward the rear. IF a chunk of bone had caught her attention she would have looked to the bone and then moved in that direction, this does not take place!

5) At no time does JACKIE even look to the rear to see where she is going or what is in front of her until she is climbing out of the limo

6) When JACKIE is on the trunk, GREER is accelerating the limo, JCAKIE is wearing slippery cotton gloves.

7) The reaching motion is not reaching for a bone, JACKIES hand is not lifted off the trunk it slides in response to her momentum being carried to the rear.

8) JACKIES left arm collapse as she cannot maintain her weight and balance with gloved hands.

9) JACKIE sees HILL and moves back to the safety of the limo or the speed of the limo becomes prohibitive.

0) If JACKIE has a bone when she reaches the hospital, her husbands head was in her lap for 5 minutes, additional chucks of bone could have come loose during the ride to the hospital.

a) During Testimony JACKIE claims to not remember climbing out of the limo, then how could she later remember retrieving a chunk of bone from the trunk? Don't be deceived by those intending to mislead or those that really don't have a clue but can be persuasive with words.



Stop the deception and the preposterous speculation concerning JACKIE going to fetch a bone! This is WC/R propaganda you are inadvertently spreading.

Get it correct please!

Jackie%20gif_zpsqwwahex9.gif
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JACKIE climbs out of the limo because her husband has just been murdered, the limo is moving very slowly and another shot is heard at Z-325 which then causes JACKIE to attempt to escape the gunfire, she starts to climb out the back of the limo without initially even looking towards the rear.

If true, CONNALLYS words may have come back to her "they re going to kill us all!"

Her gloved hands cannot grip the polished trunk and when GREER begins to accelerate JACKIES weight moves to the rear, she slips while attempting to compensate for the shift in weight.

Edited by Robert Mady
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List of Press cars in motorcade



National press pool car (on loan from the telephone company), 1960 Bel Air sedan:

Telephone company driver

assistant White House press secretary Malcolm Kilduff (right front)

Merriman Smith, UPI (middle front);

Jack Bell, AP;

Robert Baskin, Dallas Morning News;

Bob Clark, ABC News (rear).


First camera car, a yellow 1964 Chevrolet Impala Convertible:

a Texas Ranger (driver)

David Wiegman Jr., NBC;

Thomas J. Craven Jr., CBS;

Thomas "Ollie" Atkins, White House photographer;

John Hofan, an NBC sound engineer;

Cleveland Ryan, a lighting technician.

Second camera car:

Frank Cancellare, UPI

Cecil Stoughton, White House photographer;

Henry Burroughs, AP

Art Rickerby, Life magazine;

Donald C. “Clint” Grant, Dallas Morning News.

Third camera car, a Chevrolet convertible:

driver from the Texas Department of Public Safety;

Robert H. Jackson, photographer The Dallas Times Herald; photographer

Tom Dillard, Dallas Morning News

Jimmy Darnell, WBAP-TV, Fort Worth

Mal Couch, WFAA-TV/ABC Dallas

James R. Underwood, KRLD-TV Dallas

Reporters that provided testimony to the WC, all local, all from Dallas. all local news..

Robert H. Jackson, photographer The Dallas Times Herald; photographer

Tom Dillard, Dallas Morning News

Mal Couch, WFAA-TV/ABC Dallas

James R. Underwood, KRLD-TV Dallas

Reporters that were not requested to provide testimony to the WC, all non-local, virtually all connected with national news organizations

assistant White House press secretary Malcolm Kilduff (right front)

Merriman Smith, UPI (middle front);

Jack Bell, AP;

Robert Baskin, Dallas Morning News;

Bob Clark, ABC News (rear).

David Wiegman Jr., NBC;

Thomas J. Craven Jr., CBS;

Thomas "Ollie" Atkins, White House photographer;

John Hofan, an NBC sound engineer;

Cleveland Ryan, a lighting technician.

Frank Cancellare, UPI

Cecil Stoughton, White House photographer;

Henry Burroughs, AP

Art Rickerby, Life magazine;

Donald C. “Clint” Grant, Dallas Morning News.

Jimmy Darnell, WBAP-TV, Fort Worth

As well as Drivers

Edited by Robert Mady
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Posted by Pat Speer on another thread

Merriman Smith

(11-14-66 UPI article found in the Sarasota Herald-Tribune. This version of the article was published in the 11-20-66 Washington Post as well.)

..."Clint Hill, the Secret Service agent who raced from the follow-up car to the presidential vehicle to shield the fallen leader and his shocked wife, Jacqueline, heard only three shots.”...

CLINT HILL claimed in SSA Report and in WC Testimony that after he heard the first 'firecracker' shot he ran to the limo, while he was running the second 'firecracker' shot occurred and resulted in causing the fatal head wound. I know of no other interview or publication where HILL admits to hearing three shots. Would it not be of significance to have known if HILL had confided in SMITH that he had heard three shots.

SSA REPORT 11/22/1963 "when I heard a noise similar to a firecracker. The sound came from my right rear and I immediately moved my head in that direction. In so doing, my eyes had to cross the Presidential automobile and I saw the President hunch forward and then slump to his left. I jumped from the Follow-up car and ran toward the Presidential automobile. I heard a second firecracker type noise but it had a different sound-- like the sound of shooting a revolver into something hard. I saw the President slump more toward his left."

Testimony "Mr. HILL. Well, as we came out of the curve, and began to straighten up, I was viewing the area which looked to be a park. There were people scattered throughout the entire park. And I heard a noise from my right rear, which to me seemed to be a firecracker. I immediately looked to my right and, in so doing, my eyes had to cross the Presidential limousine and I saw President Kennedy grab at himself and lurch forward and to the left.
Mr. SPECTER. Why don't you just proceed, in narrative form, to tell us?
Representative BOGGS. This was the first shot?
Mr. HILL. This is the first sound that I heard; yes, sir. I jumped from the car, realizing that something was wrong, ran to the Presidential limousine. Just about as I reached it, there was another sound, which was different than the first sound. I think I described it in my statement as though someone was shooting a revolver into a hard object--it seemed to have some type of an echo. I put my right foot, I believe it was, on the left rear step of the automobile, and I had a hold of the handgrip with my hand, when the car lurched forward. I lost my footing and I had to run about three or four more steps before I could get back up in the car.

Mr. SPECTER. How many shots have you described that you heard?
Mr. HILL. Two.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you hear any more than two shots?
Mr. HILL. No, sir.

This must be a gross error on the part of Smith

or

HILL admitted to SMITH that he also heard three shots from a rifle. It is known that all four reporters riding in Press Vehicle heard three shots, it would have been awkward for a professional body guard to explain there were only two shots or that he didn't hear a third. Most probably HILL claiming to hear three rifle shots is true. HILL would have not mentioned the very first shot that had been silenced to SMITH because this would have caused a problem with number of shots and timing of the assassination. HILL would have been bound to secrecy to maintain the WC/R story line. You might say oh Bob, HILL was taking action he didn't hear a third shot, give him a break. Remember HILL as depicted in Altgens #6 had yet to take any action, IF a second shot had come before Z-313 and the fatal head wound, HILL was basically standing around peering toward the limo, apparently doing nothing, why didn't he hear three shots? He did, he also heard a fourth, a silenced shot that occurred at ~Z-190 which caught his attention and caused him to look toward the gk and the limo, and that's the truth.

If this part of SMITHs article is true (and we must consider that it is true), HILL heard three rifle shots, then it calls into question the SSA Report he signed and submitted as well as the WC Testimony as well as his descriptions of the shots he took unwarranted liberty in characterizing.

Edited by Robert Mady
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Brad, take care in what you read, a great rule of thumb I believe is: evidence generated closer to 11/22/1963 and the moment of the assassination the more pure it is likely to be or unaffected by influence from government, media, faltering memories, fame and money.

Information generated from witnesses coming forward more recently should be highly suspect.

If you want to understand the assassination, you do not need to listen to anyone, go to the affidavits from 11/22 and 11/23, interviews created on 11/22/1963 and the photographic records, then the FBI reports oldest to newest, then finally to the WC testimony if you want the ultimate in fiction, this is all you need, do not listen to the pundits, they have not figured this out in 50 years, they have no clue, they have never had a clue.

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