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Robert, the timing of SHELLEY and LOVELADY conversation with Gloria and leaving the steps is just not correct based on all of the other claims they made and photographic evidence posted. They were mistaken or persuaded to allow more time, because if they had a 3 minute conversation with Gloria, that means Adams and Styles were 3 minutes longer in starting their run down the steps which would have allowed the fictional OSWALD to have run down the steps ahead of Adams and Styles.

There is a method to their fiction. The problem is with the details, the details of the lies seldom fit. The devil is in the details.

There can be no doubt SHELLEY and LOVELADY left the steps within seconds of the last shot, wandered down the street, then reentered the dock area where they encountered Adams and Styles.

LOVELADY did not return to the steps.

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David, I agree with you, I believe Fritzs notes are the only remnant of evidence we can trust concerning what OSWALD told the interrogators.

I believe OSWALD told fritz that he went home and only changes his 'britches'

That OSWALD went out on the steps to eat his lunch (to see the President along with everyone else)

That OSWALD then went to the 2nd floor to purchase a coke, where he encountered BAKER (which BAKER verified in a statement he made...BAKER then crossed out OSWALD was drinking a coke for some reason....me thinks it made it appear that OSWALD may not have just run into the lunch room, what do you think?) Again the devil is in the details


OSWALD left the building via the front door. Which would have been an incredibly bold move for someone who supposedly had just appeared in a sixth floor window firing a weapon in front of 4-600 witnesses. And on the way out helped an agent locate a telephone in the TSBD, quite the gentleman.

Edited by Robert Mady
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For the casual reader here is Officer BAKERS original statement where he claims he encountered OSWALD in the lunchroom drinking a coke, you can see that for whatever reason BAKER then crosses it out.

This crossed out claim corroborates OSWALDS claim to have gone to the lunchroom and purchased a coke then encountered BAKER.

Picking apart the WC and the fiction they created is easy.


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I agree with everything you say. All photographic evidence points to Shelley and Lovelady departing the front steps of the TSBD for the rail yard immediately after the shots were fired, and not returning to the front steps but, rather, re-entering the rear of the TSBD briefly after their trip to the rail yards.

However, their is one problem with this, and it is the photo James shared with us in post #350. It shows Lovelady outside the front entrance of the TSBD and is purported to be "just after the assassination". James has been avoiding my questions about this photo, and I know you may be reluctant to discuss it, as it shows Lovelady in a checked shirt, but the inescapable truth of this photo is it shows a constable at the front entrance to the TSBD. We know it is not Baker, as Baker was wearing a helmet, so the only conclusion we can draw is that this photo was taken well after Baker entered the building.

How can Lovelady be in this photo?


I believe Shelley and Lovelady were induced to lie about their 3-4 minute delay on the front steps, as this would give the WC lawyers wiggle room to get Victoria Adams off of the back stairs at the time Oswald was not coming down them. I`m actually surprised she lived long enough to testify, or was even called to testify.

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"It shows Lovelady outside the front entrance of the TSBD and is purported to be "just after the assassination".

Robert see post #355 it might help explain

There is no time stamp when this LOVELADY photograph (actually film) was taken, there were no photographers that rushed to the TSBD to take any photographs, they all rushed to the monument area took some photographs then left DP in the motorcade.

The blind defenders of LOVELADY is DOORMAN will use any material and pretend as if it were real or substantial, as far as we can determine the film of LOVELADY on the steps and in the police station were staged at a later time to give traction to the idea that maybe LOVELADY was not wearing a 'red and white vertical stripped' short sleeved shirt on 11/22/1963.

Any one purporting the said photograph or film to have been taken on 11/22/1963 needs to provide a shred of evidence in support of this. In short just call BS.

Edited by Robert Mady
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Robert and Robert,

What happened to research these days.

The Hughes frame you are talking about is around 165-169.

During the frames 140 onwards Hughes is showing the people hurrying towards railroad yard.

Before the 165-9 sequence Hughes has had to change his position.

Basic point:- Significant time has passed between the moment of the assassination and the moment the frame showing Lovelady outside the TSBD. I seem to remember someone saying the Lovelady frame outside the TSBD was somewhere around One O'Clock.


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James, maybe you are missing a point and that is there are many people reading the Forum, if you offer evidence without substantiation, it is worthless or worse maybe misleading.

And not much fun for a reader who is intent on learning about the assassination.

I will pass on trying to determine the validity of your evidence.

Besides I don't feel compelled to prove you wrong.

The 'complete' Hughes film found on youtube and shows the entrance of the TSBD but no LOVELADY, if there is additional footage it would be nice to see.

I know this may sound like it is a hedge, but it was cool in Dallas that day, LOVELADY could have changed cloths to a longer length shirt to leave work or go to the police station.

What are the chances again, LOVELADY is in the TSBD for a long while following the assassination, then steps out for a minute onto the steps and is filmed

standing on the steps, funny this didn't happen to anyone else like FRAZIER or SHELLEY or TRULY, why is it LOVELADY can be found promeninetly displayed in these odd clips?

IS there a tremendous amount of film and photographs that are unavailable to the average researcher, if so I would sure like to know where to go to get this material. For the few bits and pieces we have available to us it just seems incredible that two of the pieces clearly show LOVELADY in his plaid shirt, just does not seem possible to me.

Maybe it would be appropriate for you to comment on the Couch clip that shows SHELLEY and LOVELADY (in light colored short sleeved shirt) moments after the assassination walk to the rail yards just as they claimed?

A quick question

IF LOVELADY is photographed on the steps about 1:00

How does that work if LOVELADY was taking the police at that time to the sixth floor?

Mr. BALL - And you stayed on the first floor then?
Mr. LOVELADY - I would say 30 minutes. And one of the policemen asked me would I take them up on the sixth floor.
Mr. BALL - Did you take them up there?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, sir; I sure did.

Wouldn't that be about 1:00 when LOVELADY led the tour upstairs, likely stayed there for awhile don't you think?

Edited by Robert Mady
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Look at A6 again. If that is Doorman's arm, it is clearly in front of the black fellow. The arm may not belong to the black fellow but, if it belongs to Doorman, Doorman is picking the black fellow`s shirt pocket.

No, it isn't Bob. The arm is not in front of Lewis. Perspective makes it appear so. Doorman is set back quite a few feet from Lewis, so I agree that it couldn't be his arm if it was in front of Lewis. It just isn't.

Edited by Ray Mitcham
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On top of the points you made, the TSBD was locked down by the police until well after the rifle was found. Nobody in, nobody out. How would Lovelady have made it outside by 1:00 PM? Even film had to be smuggled out.


Given the amount of time Lovelady claimed he and Shelley were wandering around the rail yard, half an hour would be more like 1:10 PM. Hardly what one would call "just after the assassination". And Lovelady being asked to escort police upstairs is likely post discovery of the rifle, indicated by their request to go to the 6th floor.

Edited by Robert Prudhomme
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If the black fellow is wearing a white shirt, and that is the white shirt we are seeing, the arm is obscuring the upper part of that shirt. The arm clearly belongs to someone standing to the right and forward of this man.

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Ray, take a look at this Hughes gif and watch LEWIS.

1) Let me know if you can see him applauding

2) Let me know if you see that he also may have bare forearms.


Ray, I have had nightmares over this photograph trying to understand what is happening around OSWALD.

I originally tried to understand how he was standing and how his arm could slant across his body like that, I could never reconcile the proportion of his arm to his body, its just is not right.

I don't know for sure what is happening in A6. there truly is some strange anomalies, maybe there was some alterations ( I would love for some one to give me a good reason other than messing with the hairline for alterations)

Any way I can't concede that the arm is OSWALDS, after watching the Hughes clip it appears it could be LEWIS after all.

I have no other photographs of the crowd in front of TSBD to determine who else it could be.

Also you challenged me on the see the eye see the pattern, I don't have a quality image of the shirt, if you have one please post it.

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I hope you guys are beginning to understand that the two men walking down the street can only be SHELLEY and LOVELADY.


Mr. LOVELADY - ... and policemen started running out that way and we said we better get back into the building

Mr. BALL - How did you happen to turn around and see Truly and the policeman go into the building?
Mr. LOVELADY - Somebody hollered and I looked.
Mr. BALL - You turned around and looked?

Mr. BALL - By the time you left the steps had Mr. Truly entered the building?
Mr. LOVELADY - As we left the steps I would say we were at least 15. maybe 25. steps away from the building. I looked back and I saw him and the policeman running into the building.
Mr. BALL - How many steps?
Mr. LOVELADY - Twenty, 25.

25 steps from the front steps is about right, to turn and see BAKER run into the building with TRULY

Do most of you agree with the fact that SHELLEY and LOVELADY are the two men seen walking down the street in the Couch film?


Edited by Robert Mady
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