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Sorry Robert, I just lost my post to you, it has been a long time since I was able to post here so I must get back upto snuff.....imo do many searches within the forum, I think you may find much information to change your mind that these subjects have not been researched in the past....for now I I will post Bill Newman' information from Snead's book. Copied and.thanks to Duncan's forum. And a recent photo of them and a Nix gif made by Frank Aqbat, a member ,showing the reactions of the motorcyclists at that time...Please carry on with your research, it is most interesting..to read a new analysis....and also do look into Vincent Palamara's work on the Secret Service, if you have not in the past, you will find it most rewarding I do believe, please carry on. For now take care...b

Bill Newman...

As Bill Newman says -- in his own words -- from Larry Sneed's No More Silence:

"We didn't run up towards the grassy knoll like the rest of the people. We had started walking up there when they stopped us. A lot of people did run up the grassy knoll in that area afterwards, but we were not as anxious as most of the crowd to try to find someone. I don't know why they were running up that way. Maybe the Secret Service men or whoever initiated it, but I just think it was more or less a crowd reaction. I doubt if the people saw or heard anything up there."

"Many people ask me when I say I thought the shots came from behind if I thought they came from behind to my right or to my left, which one direction would put it in the direction of the School Book Depository and the other would put it in the direction of the fence area. I've always just stated that I thought the shots came from behind, and that really holds true with the third shot....We saw what happened to the President, but we reallyl didn't see what happened around us."

"But I want to believe that the third shot came from behind me, and coming from behind me would not necessarily be in the direction of the School Book Depository. There is certainly a reasonable doubt. But I'm also influenced by what I've read over the last twenty-five plus years, so I'd rather not try to lead people in one direction or the other because I think being a witness to the assassination and what I saw, it was more of a visual thing."

"I wouldn't go so far as to say there was a cover-up, but you wonder sometimes what the purpose of the Warren Commission really was. I'm so close to the Kennedy assassination, and I've talked to so many people over the years that you just tend to believe that it had to be the act of more than just one individual. I was surprised to find out that all the shots came from the Book Depository. I don't mean to say that when I heard the shots that I thought something was wrong. But never once did I think that the shots had come from the direction of the School Book Depository. I never looked in that direction, and we were standing in the place where it would have been very easy for us to look up toward the sixth floor window. So it raises a reasonable doubt in my mind as to what the sole purpose of the Warren Commission was."

"As far as the theories are concerned, I'd rather not contribute or speculate. I'm sure that my thinking has been swayed over the years by hearing different versions. The one thing I do want to believe is that it was not the act of a lone assassin, so I tend to believe it was a conspiracy. Whether it was the act of two individuals or how many, I don't know. It's very possible that there was just one lone assassin at the site. I can't tell you how many assassins were at the site; I can't say that someone was behind the fence, and I'm not trying to discourage that theory, that's very possible. But even though there might have been just one person at the site, it does not mean there were not other people behind the scenes."

Click on the gif to activate...thanks..

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Edited by Bernice Moore
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Robert, this forum has a 708 pages as of today, each with a multitude of threads. Believe it or not, you are NOT "plowing new ground" here. The late Tom Purvis based a lot of his theory on what the early surveys by Robert West showed, that the FBI and SS initially believed that shot #1 was prior to Z210, that shot #2 was at Z312, and that shot #3 was around Z345-Z347.

Research some of the pages here on this forum. You will learn much about what is and isn't new, and what has and hasn't been discussed in the past.

Edited by Mark Knight
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Hi Robert,

In a previous post of yours, which appears to have been since edited, I believe you expressed the view that the first shot (the firecracker-like sound) may have been fired by an air rifle of some sort, fired at around Z-186, and fired by a sniper located at the corner of the fence.

Would it be possible for you to post an overhead graphic that displays both the shooter's presumed location and Kennedy's location at Z-186? Some landmarks such as the Stemmons Freeway sign and Zapruder's position would also be helpful.

Thanks,

Tom

Edited by Tom Hume
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Tom,

Yes I edited my post when I realized it was useless to continue.

Here is Dealey Plaza map, it shows a direct line of sight from corner of picket fence to limo at ~Z-187.

The map shows relative positions of civilian witnesses near the limo at the moment of the Z-313, it shows the witness claims for direction of shots, note they all claimed the shots came from 'grassy knoll' this is a term used to encompass to the right of the limo. Note only exception is BREHM.

Map has excluded news media and people connected with government.

dealeyplaza_witnesses_zpsf53e6f67.jpg

Edited by Robert Mady
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Tom

the gas powered rifle or air rifle fits the data.

1) the 'firecracker' sound was only heard by a few witnesses and like WILLIAM NEWMAN, they observed the president jump or react in some manner, but did not associate the movement to be a reaction to an injury. NO ONE realized the President had been wounded by the 'firecracker' like sound. -> hence no reaction from the SSA.

2) the gas powered rifle still made some noise, it was a popping noise and was not noticeable in every location.

3) witnesses observed a smoke under the trees, associated with 'firecracker' sound.

4) MOORMAN, HILL, SUMMERS, HUDSON... did not hear the 'firecracker' sound and claimed the first shot to be the one at Z-313 that caused the fatal head wound.

It is conceivable that a gas powered air rifle caused condensation from expelling gas on discharge that momentarily cooled a compact body of air and what the witnesses saw was a momentary mist that disappeared rapidly as it warmed.

The controversy over modern weapons not creating smoke is just a distraction.

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Tom

For grins and giggles, here is a map of SSA, Police and news media claims for direction of shots.

Compare this with civilian map.

Also of note for those that have not studies this, there is not 1 SSA that claimed the shots came from the TSBD, they just said to the rear or some nebulas direction.

Three of the red arrows would be for READY, LANDIS and HICKEY and these witnesses are impeached, evidenced by what is discernable in the Zapruder film. We know based on the Zapruder film that READY, LANDIS and HICKEY looked to the grassy knoll in reaction to hearing the 'firecracker' like sound.

dealeyplaza_officials_zps55c79906.jpg

Edited by Robert Mady
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Hi Robert,

I cannot get your maps of Dealey Plaza to enlarge, but linked below is a version that will:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_0viO-Dm52sM/SU9hnvbKysI/AAAAAAAAK9Q/4Tw1WjPIGjU/s1600-h/DealeyPlaza.jpg

It appears to be about 115 feet from your possible shooter to Kennedys possible neck wound. To test a concept similar to yours, I recently dug out my attic a .177 (BB size) pump pellet rifle (Sheridan Intermount with scope). It might be 50 years old, but even at my advanced age, and with poor eyesight, with four pumps I can consistently hit a pop can at 100 feet.

While not exactly a toy, Im sure there were better air guns available in 1963, and a few of them were .22 caliber.

Over the years, many have suggested the advantages of using an air gun for the assassins first shot: Not very loud, as you have indicated, and the possibility of using a BB treated with a paralyzing agent; maybe even a dissolvable pellet.

This would, others have suggested, keep Kennedy paralyzed and unlikely to dive for cover when the big guns took over.

Judging from your map-diagram, it appears that Umbrella Man might have been in your shooters line of sight at about Z-187, and before that, the Stemmons sign.

Im wondering if you have done a horizontal depiction of this possible first shot and evaluated how UM and the Stemmons sign would have affected the shooter?

Tom

Edited by Tom Hume
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Tom

You also had been looking at the possibility of the first shot coming from the corner of the picket fence with a compressed gas rifle?

What else did you determine?

Tom, after uncovering the four shot scenario, it became self evident the WC/R was a cover-up.

Further analysis has been discontinued, for me, with absolute certainty the mystery had been solved.

All the details of the assassination can never be realized because of obfuscation of evidence by those who found it acceptable to go along with the conspirators.

I believe the point is, if it can be proven that four shots were fired from within Dealey Plaza, it will end 50 years of deceptions, truth is what is needed, the details can be left for historians to uncover.

Edited by Robert Mady
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Robert,

Yes and no. Yes I had been considering the possibility of a first shot from an air rifle - many have suggested this in the past. But no, I had not been looking at the possibility of the first shot coming from the corner of the picket fence.

Good luck to you, and thanks for answering my questions.

Tom

Edited by Tom Hume
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Tom

The evidence I am using is

1) Reaction of JFK

2) Reaction of SS Agents

Since it is uncertain how to recognize when JFK is wounded judging by his actions the next reaction to look for is a reactions to the sound of the shot. Only HICKEY, LANDIS, READY and C HILL are seen to react to something, they all react about the same moment, Z-194, all with their attention directed to the same area. Working backwards puts the 'firecracker' sounding shot before Z-194

http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z194.jpg

Edited by Robert Mady
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Robert; you mention smoke seen in the fence area, there were quite a few witnesses to such, including all the railroad men on the overpass.that stated it was smoke, from that area...you will find several good threads on the smoke research.......if interested within the sarch engine here........I am posting a few smoke seen and filmed within the Wiegman film, photos for you from some of the studies, several are years old now..FYI .b

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Edited by Bernice Moore
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