Coming to a Library Near You...(or in this case, me)...JVB's latest tour....:-0

[Pamela Brown]

BIG QUESTION FOR ALL REGARDING JUDYTH: Martin Shackelford, a long time researcher I respect (but do not necessarily like), stuck his neck out in a huge way, claiming Judyth's story was solid, she is for real, etc.

WHAT HAPPENED to Martin?? Any comment on his backing her story...and where is he???

Martin was Judyth's greatest supporter. He did believe her. He backed her first book, the unauthorized "Lee Harvey Oswald" two-volume set that came out in 2007. There were so many disagreements about that, I think that was a turning point for him, though that is simply my opinion. I also think that the fake 'asylum' note that Judyth posted when in fact her petition for asylum had been rejected became a stumbling block for him. Again, my opinion...

[Pamela Brown]

Pamela, I've forwarded the question to Jerry Dealey who probably knows the most about the TSBD including its phone system. I can tell you that some of the individual businesses inside the building had their own small key systems where a secretary could forward calls to extension phones or individuals could use those extensions to call out. I suspect the same was true for the TSBD, if somebody has quick access to a 1963 directory or cross directory you can check the number of lines going to that address and who they are listed for....I'm betting there was only one listed number for the TSBD. Plus there is the other fact that as a business the TSBD was actually located in two buildings and the school book depository location was relatively new. Not sure exactly what offices were in which building. It would be interesting to see what the phone directory really lists in that regard.

I'll let everyone know if Jerry provides any information but my guess is that the TSBD also used a key system, classic operator switchboards with patch panels were pretty uncommon other than in telephone exchanges. If so the system was on a Secretary's desk who would have answered for the company and no doubt asked why somebody was calling the janitor. I can't fathom how Oswald would have heard about the call? Besides, why call him at work. His apartment building had a shared phone. And anyone who was cautious enough to use multiple mailboxes would probably be up to telling her to call a payphone at a given time or better yet call her from a pay phone to keep in touch.

Thank you! Excellent! If it's ok, I'll like to this from my finding judyth blog..

[Pamela Brown]

Pamela, I've forwarded the question to Jerry Dealey who probably knows the most about the TSBD including its phone system. I can tell you that some of the individual businesses inside the building had their own small key systems where a secretary could forward calls to extension phones or individuals could use those extensions to call out. I suspect the same was true for the TSBD, if somebody has quick access to a 1963 directory or cross directory you can check the number of lines going to that address and who they are listed for....I'm betting there was only one listed number for the TSBD. Plus there is the other fact that as a business the TSBD was actually located in two buildings and the school book depository location was relatively new. Not sure exactly what offices were in which building. It would be interesting to see what the phone directory really lists in that regard.

I'll let everyone know if Jerry provides any information but my guess is that the TSBD also used a key system, classic operator switchboards with patch panels were pretty uncommon other than in telephone exchanges. If so the system was on a Secretary's desk who would have answered for the company and no doubt asked why somebody was calling the janitor. I can't fathom how Oswald would have heard about the call? Besides, why call him at work. His apartment building had a shared phone. And anyone who was cautious enough to use multiple mailboxes would probably be up to telling her to call a payphone at a given time or better yet call her from a pay phone to keep in touch.

Larry,

Geneva Hine provided a limited glimpse of the phone setup for the TSBD in her WC testimony:

Mr. BALL. Did you have to change your desk over to another desk?

Miss HINE. Yes, sir; to the middle desk on the front row.

Mr. BALL. Was there a switchboard?

Miss HINE. No, sir; we have a telephone with three incoming lines, then we have the warehouse line and we have an intercom system.

Mr. BALL. You don't have a switchboard?

Miss HINE. Not now; we did in the other building.

Mr. BALL. Were you alone then at this time?

Miss HINE. Yes.

Mr. BALL. Did you stay at your desk?

Miss HINE. Yes, sir: I was alone until the lights all went out and the phones became dead because the motorcade was coming near us and no one was calling so I got up and thought I could see it from the east window in our office.

This sounds similar to the phone system scenario you describe in your post. Hopefully Jerry Dealey can add something to that.

Regarding the "Janitor" issue ... Eddie Piper gave his title as Janitor in his first day affidavit and in his WC testimony (the only employee to do so). If someone had phoned the TSBD and asked for the Janitor, wouldn't Eddie Piper be the person who was paged on the intercom?

Excellent. A return to sanity...ok if I link to this from my finding judyth blog? :-)

[Larry Hancock]

Fine by me Pamela, it just seems one more example of where Judyth introduces the sort of superficial spy like practices that make little sense when you dig a bit deeper into reality.

[Pamela Brown]

Fine by me Pamela, it just seems one more example of where Judyth introduces the sort of superficial spy like practices that make little sense when you dig a bit deeper into reality.

Agreed. Imagine that that sort of thing endears her to some of her followers...:-0

[Pamela Brown]

McAdams has started a thread on Bernice's comment in this thread that Judyth claims her usenet posts were deleted:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.assassination.jfk/BHdtK2tWOxg

Bernice initially said, "In retrospect it appears too bad that McAdams deleted all of her over 4, 000 posts on the alts, those told imo the real story from her first I believe it was around Sept 98 or so .posting ."

I recall that Judyth always kept tabs on the groups and was devastated to find posts 'missing' after the switch to Google. I don't know if they were deleted from McAdams server or just much harder to find; the search algorithms there are just terrible. But, of course, that was another indication of the sinister forces massed against Judyth. In addition, Judyth is obsessed with her presence on the web and can spout numbers about all activity about her at any given time.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Pamela Brown

[Pamela Brown]

DUH!

It just occurred to me that I may have the goods on Judyth after all. She told me on numerous occasions how she told her sister Debbee about her relationship with Lee soon after the assassination (hint, hint). But never once in any of those discussions did she ever say that she told Debbee about the bioweapon plot that would have conclusively 'proved' Lee's innocence.

I am testing an hypothesis that Judyth may have seen Lee at the Reily Coffee Company and may have turned her nose up at him as he was just an oiler of the coffee machines. But it wasn't until after the assassination and Marina's shooting to fame that she realized what an opportunity she had missed.

Ironically, it is her documentation to having worked at Reily at the same time as Lee that gives her the possibility of any credibility at all. Yet she claims they didn't meet at Reily, but, instead at the far more 'romantic' Post Office. I wonder if they ever actually met at all...

And for anyone kind enough to think that Judyth's stories are a result of her being 'delusional' I say, absolutely not. She knows exactly what she is doing, and this accounts for the viciousness she has continually displayed toward Marina, whom she is obsessed with discrediting.

AHA!!!

[Vince Palamara]

Pam, is Judyth "the new Roscoe/ Ricky White"- some genuine connections, a kernel of truth(s), and the rest is b.s.? Geez...I hope she isn't a big hoax

[Larry Hancock]

Certainly BS as far as the assassination is concerned, but as with James Files, the media loves sensation and with her current, extensive book tour we may well see more local coverage

such as that below:

www.wndu.com/home/headlines/Who-Killed-JFK-Michiana-native-says-its-not-the-usual-suspect-282481221.html

[Bernice Moore]

Pamela...oh to have started another Judyth thread...oh my...from memory, she Judyth at one time went on about posts being deleted , I have them the posts I do believe on cds.as at that time Dixie and I went through each and every of hers I know for sure at McAdams, and they were saved and downloaded.....which are put away, and I am not physically up to digging and going through all junk stuff to gather them up, at the present time..she may have mentioned usernet and or also, but I do recall from memory she being very upset at them being gone, sorry to have begun anther thread , as if there are not more than enough already...thanks for letting me know...b

Edited November 15, 2014 by Bernice Moore

[Pamela Brown]

Judyth as a Revisionist of JFK Assassination History -- new post on my Finding Judyth blog...

In countless JFK assassination newsgroup posts we read the comment that Judyth Baker has tried to 'insert' herself into history. While that statement has a certain amount of validity, it also presents a puzzling enigma, because it does not completely describe what is happening.

Judyth is not simply trying to 'insert' herself into the existing JFK assassination historical record, she is attempting to rewrite the entire JFK assassination historical record, and put herself in the middle of it. As evidence of this, I offer the fact that, according to Judyth's own statements, she did everything possible to try to get the famed JFK researcher Mary Ferrell to rewrite her monumentally significant timelines of Lee Harvey Oswald to include Judyth's 'information'. I think this was the ultimate goal she had in attempting to befriend Mary in the first place. In fact, Judyth did such a good job in trying to bewitch Mary that it seems, initially, even Mary, with all her common sense, was persuaded that Judyth might have some credibility.

This week, Judyth is hosting her own conference on the JFK assassination. Now her rewriting of history includes a book on David Ferrie, much of which may well have been 'borrowed' from a long-time Ferrie researcher (Steven Roy on EF) who goes by the alias of Blackburst on the usenet groups. Hopefully, this misappropriation of research materials will be dealt with at a meaningful level with Judyth and her publisher, Trine Day. They might also want to consider the possibility that Judyth's libel of Marina Oswald in her first book Me and Lee could end up resulting in a defamation lawsuit.

But this is just the tip of the iceberg about what Judyth Baker has been after all along. She will try to rewrite not only the Warren Commission Report, which excludes her, but all the documentation of those who have found glaring lapses and errors with it, the critics of the Report. She will try to wipe out all mention of Marina as a valid witness to Lee Harvey Oswald and replace these statements with her own. Geobbels could not have done a better job...

Edited November 15, 2014 by Pamela Brown

[Pamela Brown]

Pam, is Judyth "the new Roscoe/ Ricky White"- some genuine connections, a kernel of truth(s), and the rest is b.s.? Geez...I hope she isn't a big hoax

Judyth claims she is smarter than all of us, and I do think she is smarter than Ricky White. But yes, I think that what she is doing is essentially the same thing, only with far more drama and finesse. If I had not known Judyth for seven years, and done my best to work with her, I doubt that I would have had this much insight, as her methods can be effective certainly at least to the level of generating confusion, if not outright 'belief'. I felt it my job to keep an open mind to what she had to say, and a part of me hoped that she was telling the truth and just getting a bad rap from many people. But her vicious behavior, underneath all the 'romance' and drama of her life and her book Me and Lee, which she was working on at the time, persuaded me that she has had a hidden agenda from the start, which was to discredit Marina Oswald and replace Marina in the eye of public perception. Nothing I have seen or heard since has caused me to modify that position...

[Pamela Brown]

Pamela...oh to have started another Judyth thread...oh my...from memory, she Judyth at one time went on about posts being deleted , I have them the posts I do believe on cds.as at that time Dixie and I went through each and every of hers I know for sure at McAdams, and they were saved and downloaded.....which are put away, and I am not physically up to digging and going through all junk stuff to gather them up, at the present time..she may have mentioned usernet and or also, but I do recall from memory she being very upset at them being gone, sorry to have begun anther thread , as if there are not more than enough already...thanks for letting me know...b

I won't prolong another thread on Judyth and I appreciate your information. Let's just agree that Judyth was very upset about deleted posts and that that may have in fact occurred. Thanks...