Jump to content
The Education Forum

Air Force One communications


Recommended Posts

Absence of the complete AF 1 recordings, absence of proof positive of what communications transpired regarding Oswald. Perhaps as Varnell seems to be pointing out, the writings of historians like Salinger White and Manchester probably reveal more truth than any research into military records or protocols, or edited AF 1 tapes are likely to reveal.

Two distinct areas of research re the AF1 tapes: 1) Bundy as a Person of Interest in the murder of JFK and subsequent cover-up, 2) the military records, protocols, edited transcripts, and all other matters relating to the Af1 tapes.

To engage in a study of 2) while neglecting the far more significant 1) is to dig rabbit holes...

Historians like Hancock, who have spent so much time digging for proof, find themselves agnostic when the proof isn't there. If it was only one presidential historian who claimed that Bundy relayed to AF 1 the info that Oswald was guilty and had no accomplices I would be skeptical. But in this case I find myself convinced that Bundy did what the three of them independantly say he did, and have no trouble seeing that as evidence that he was prepared before the fact, or else immediately afterwards, to steer the ship of state in the direction it took.

A false mystery.

As for LeMay, he sure got his ass back to DC in a hurry, and I still don't know whether it was his adjutant that was on AF 1 calling him mid flight. Someone here explained this to me last year, so if anyone knows for sure how that went down please share that info again.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 62
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Cliff, I wish you well....hopefully will turn your research into a monograph or extended essay on the use of Bundy, his dialog with Johnson and how that all pulled the lone assassin cover up together. I promise that when you do I'll be eager to read it. I've given my own scenario of how the Lone Nut thing evolved already but I'm always open to alternatives.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Absence of the complete AF 1 recordings, absence of proof positive of what communications transpired regarding Oswald. Perhaps as Varnell seems to be pointing out, the writings of historians like Salinger White and Manchester probably reveal more truth than any research into military records or protocols, or edited AF 1 tapes are likely to reveal. Historians like Hancock, who have spent so much time digging for proof, find themselves agnostic when the proof isn't there. If it was only one presidential historian who claimed that Bundy relayed to AF 1 the info that Oswald was guilty and had no accomplices I would be skeptical. But in this case I find myself convinced that Bundy did what the three of them independantly say he did, and have no trouble seeing that as evidence that he was prepared before the fact, or else immediately afterwards, to steer the ship of state in the direction it took.

As for LeMay, he sure got his ass back to DC in a hurry, and I still don't know whether it was his adjutant that was on AF 1 calling him mid flight. Someone here explained this to me last year, so if anyone knows for sure how that went down please share that info again.

Here are a couple of links that may interest you Paul.

Where was Gen. Curtis LeMay on Nov. 22, 1963?

Source;

http://jfkfacts.org/assassination/a-note-on-curtis-lemays-actions-on-nov-22/

LeMay on 11/22/63

Source:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18736

Wiarton AFB Canada, where LeMay was on 11/22/63.

Source:

http://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/7jQCUBHR/wiarton-afb-canada-where-lemay-was-on-11-22-63

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I don't know what happened at the Dallas LANCER conference on this subject but I think it's important to delve into it - and will do what I can to focus on all of the serious issues regarding the AF1 Radio Tapes.

I'm on the same page with Larry on the Bundy and the AF1 tapes, but agree with Cliff that we have to run down every lead to the hilt and not just abandon one line of inquiry when we realize it is a dead end alley, as there's a lot to be learned from dead end alleys.

More to come on this,

BK

Link to post
Share on other sites

Bill, we had a good deal of interest and a group discussion which lasted about half an hour. Basically we covered all the areas where we know there are missing conversations as well as the likely possibility that that there were secure voice conversations that are missing. We also covered the issue of multiple edits to the tape - all the basics. Most of the folks were not aware of the 2012 find so all in all it was a good way to raise interest in one more area where the official record has been intentionally altered - just like with the Hoover/Johnson tape conversation erasure.

Link to post
Share on other sites

After reviewing the links that Malcom Ward posted, and re-reading all of Bill Kelly's posts on LeMay, I wind up at the same place. LeMay was up to something. His aide, Dornan, was not with him in northern Michigan or Canada, on Nov 22. According to his family that was very unusual. The explanation given was that LeMay was on a fishing vacation. If that is so, why were there deliberate efforts to hide the fact that he flew back to DC, arriving before AF 1? There are records, nearly destroyed, that prove he flew back in time for the autopsy, whether he was there or not. There is now proof, previously hidden, that his aide determedly tried to contact LeMay while he was inflight to DC bit before he landed. And of course there is one eye witness who stuck to the story that LeMay attended the autopsy, smoking a cigar.

I know there is no proof, as writers like Hancock point out, that LeMay attended the autopsy, or that he was doing something other than fishing in northern Michigan. But the circumstantial evidence is suggestive of some other agenda. Could there be another explanation for what he was doing, and why his aide did not accompany him on his trip? It's the lie after the fact that leads me in the direction that he was not on vacation, and that he did attend the autopsy even though his name is not listed on the logs. And the fact that there was an underground sophisticated command and control communications center nearby where he was picked up in Canada makes me wonder if he was there monitoring events in Dallas. If he was, he sure went to great lengths to obfuscate that fact. When combined with the stories of Jack Crichton and other military intelligence being involved with a likewise underground communications center in Dallas it starts to look like a Seven Days in May military run coup.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the report from Dallas Larry, I'm glad there is growing interest in the AF1 tapes and what they tell us.

And while I agree with Paul - thanks for reading my stuff Paul - I agree that there's something fishy going on - I also agree with Larry in that we have to work with the evidence we have and not what we wish we had.

It seems to me that LeMay was on vacation and taken by surprise by the assassination, and his deputy - Col. Dorman ultimately lost his life as a result of the assassination as a fighter pilot in Vietnam.

And it appears there is no record of Bundy telling AF1 that Oswald was the assassin and there was mo conspiracy, though he may have, based on the news reports from Dallas.

There is evidence on the tapes that Navy officer Oliver Hallett did communicate with the cabinet plane and AF1 from the Situation Room and he was acquainted with Oswald having served as the.Navy attache at the US embassy in Moscow when Oswald defected. Hallett's wife was Snyder's receptionist and met Oswald. To me that is more astounding than the Bundy allegations.

There are a number of other important issues that will be addressed soon.

BK

Link to post
Share on other sites

And it appears there is no record of Bundy telling AF1 that Oswald was the assassin and there was mo conspiracy, though he may have, based on the news reports from Dallas.

This idea that AF1 or Bundy got the "lone assassin" angle from news reports is wrong. Stubborn little notion, innit?

There was nothing in the early reports that would convince two plane-loads of high gov't officials that the freshly captured suspect was a "lone assassin."

This Pet Theory is approaching Zombie territory.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So where do you get it?

Not off the tapes. Its not there.

Salandria?

White?

Salinger?

Bishop?

Manchester?

The Situation Room says it is getting its info "off the ticker," - the wire services and radio, and if you listen to the tapes, Bundy is not calling the shots - issuing instructions and orders - generals are.

We will be reviewing the AF1 radio tapes in depth soon and anyone can contribute - but you have to at least be familiar with what we have done so far and not drag us back to square one - though maybe thats where we should start to bring everybody to the same page.

BK

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Majors, Colonels and Navy Commanders who were in and communicating though the Situation Room are identified on the transcript available at Bill's web site.

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2013/11/combined-air-force-one-radio-tapes.html

The Generals I'm aware of were on the Air Force One aircraft and were Presidential aides....those are also identified. Bill may have some other Generals in

mind as well....

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well Johnson sure wasn't, within a relatively short period of time he dismissed all the military aides JFK had and did away with the individual aide system, he replaced two Generals and a Navy Captain with a single major and that was an officer whose experience had been as Johnson's pilot. He took great pleasure in reducing service access to the President and it wouldn't be long before he started cussing out the Joint Chiefs in meetings.

The early part of the process is described in a book by White House Military Officer Bill Gulley, titled Breaking Cover....Bill Kelly recommended it to me and if you want some real inside scoop on how military affairs worked from that point on I would certainly recommend it...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...