Vanessa Loney Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Thanks Carmine but we seem to be back to square one here. I'm arguing that there is a difference between an argument that is well substantiated and an argument that is proven. You seem to be requiring that Sean Murphy has proven his argument beyond doubt before it can be called substantiated. If you want to identify specifically where Sean has not provided documentation to back up his claims then I would like to see that. Otherwise I'm happy to accept the ruling of Mark Knight that no threads be pinned because the moderators don't want to run this forum that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanessa Loney Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 That's fantastic Greg. I'll have to take back all my complaints about lack of press coverage! Shall write a memo to my bosses getting this ground-breaking journal on to our daily reading lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanessa Loney Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Hi Carmine Just so long as we are agreeing that we agree that Sean Murphy has substantiated his argument. Otherwise I'm prepared to flog this dead horse until it gets up and walks again (sorry about the imagery there folks - I love animals really). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I don't think it should be pinned. I agree with Murph that Oswald not the Sniper in the sixth floor window - but the photo of Prayer Man - like most of the photo evidence - is unconvincing - and there is better evidence of Oswald's innocence. Well I'm back - has anybody read my most recent stuff at JFKCountercoup and JFKCountercoup2? And thanks to Greg Parker for posting at his blog my earlier article on Bill O'Reilly and deMohrenschilts - suddenly a hot topic. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) Hi Carmine Just so long as we are agreeing that we agree that Sean Murphy has substantiated his argument. Otherwise I'm prepared to flog this dead horse until it gets up and walks again (sorry about the imagery there folks - I love animals really). Since it's Kelly's thread, I'd say it's totally irrelevant. Hi Bill! (just kidding) --Tommy PS When are you going to send me my interview of retired ONI special agent Robert D. Steel tape back, or a good copy of it? Which you said in an e-mail you would do a couple of years ago. --Thanks Edited March 19, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) Hi Carmine Just so long as we are agreeing that we agree that Sean Murphy has substantiated his argument. Otherwise I'm prepared to flog this dead horse until it gets up and walks again (sorry about the imagery there folks - I love animals really). Since it's Kelly's thread, I'd say it's totally irrelevant. Hi Bill! (just kidding) --Tommy PS When are you going to send me my interview of retired ONI special agent Robert D. Steel tape back, or a good copy of it? Which you said in an e-mail you would do a couple of years ago. --Thanks bumped for Bill Kelly who is with us as I type this... Edited March 19, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Vanessa, In essence what I am saying is no idea without substantial and verifiable evidence should be pinned. No idea without the support of evidence requires such methods as I have prior indicated were employed in the presentation of this idea. I feel the exact same about photographic claims Gary Mack, Dale Meyers, Ralph Cinque, and others offer. Not enough evidence in my view, and others. You support it, fine, that is your right. You are welcome to do so as I am to oppose it. That is the marketplace of ideas. Greg, Very well. No need to continue chatting then, apparently we miscommunicated. For my part in that I do apologize. Accepted and moved on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 That's fantastic Greg. I'll have to take back all my complaints about lack of press coverage! Shall write a memo to my bosses getting this ground-breaking journal on to our daily reading lists. I can see a promotion in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I don't think it should be pinned. I agree with Murph that Oswald not the Sniper in the sixth floor window - but the photo of Prayer Man - like most of the photo evidence - is unconvincing - and there is better evidence of Oswald's innocence. Well I'm back - has anybody read my most recent stuff at JFKCountercoup and JFKCountercoup2? And thanks to Greg Parker for posting at his blog my earlier article on Bill O'Reilly and deMohrenschilts - suddenly a hot topic. BK Bill, you were always ahead of the pack - as you showed with O'Reilly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanessa Loney Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Unfortunately I see a demotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanessa Loney Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Hi Bill - nice to meet you. Again apologies to all about my responses not including the quote. I've got browser problems apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanessa Loney Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Amen to all that, Lee. Totally agree that this is a game changing issue that can be resolved one way or the other with a bit of technology (while many others can't). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 This, in my opinion, is the single most important thread contained on this, or any other forum, for a number of specific reasons: The topic and most of the content contained here has the ability to attract new interest in this case. The combination of the thoughtful and meticulous research combined with the tantalising photographic evidence takes us almost to the point of completely and finally closing the case against Oswald once and for all. No if’s – no but’s – no maybe’s. Now, what self-respecting and honest person wouldn’t want that? Only one thing will prove or dismiss the overwhelming possibility and probability that ‘Prayerman’ is Lee Harvey Oswald. High definition scans and technological analysis of the Darnell, Weigman and Towner films are necessary. Given that the captured frames, each and every time we have received better versions, have only made the figure look even more like Oswald I sincerely believe that technology will put the question of identity to bed. I, along with Vanessa, would certainly contribute financially to making this happen. When Buell Wesley Frazier initially declined to identify himself as the person stood to the left of ‘Prayerman’ at the top of the steps, in the exact spot where BWF said he was stood - - even though every single seasoned researcher on the planet could identify him in the picture - - it told us all we needed to know about how unsettling this photograph was to an individual who still holds many secrets. The thread has garnered over 200,000 views and more than 1,600 replies across more than 100 pages. Even the time wasters, nay-sayers and obfuscators couldn’t stop this juggernaut. At this moment in time, the individuals and institutions with the ability and the resources to put this to bed do not seem the slightest bit interested in helping pave the way. Including Mr. JFK himself Robert Groden. That, from my perspective, is interesting, perplexing and quite telling. Perhaps when the issue is settled there will be less $100 books to sell on the knoll? The Sixth Floor Museum has the control and has the power to finish this debate and even though we finally got a confirmation from Buell Wesley Frazier that, yes, the individual stood next to the person who could be his friend Lee Harvey Oswald, was in fact Buell Wesley Frazier, the powers that be have been silent on providing HD film scans of the movies. If ‘Prayerman’ is Oswald the information provided in this thread outlines the exact details of how the case against him was constructed, how witnesses were manipulated and coerced and how evidence was fabricated. I hate to disagree with Bill Kelly here. This one issue is the game-changer. The arguments about the second floor encounter and myriad of other evidence the critics have accumulated over the years will continue unabated. If the question of Prayerman is concluded, and is concluded the way I imagine it will be concluded, there is no debate. It ends. Period. The efforts to work out the real who, how and why will no doubt go on but the vindication of the man who was set-up and accused of performing this heinous crime will be complete and the history books can be rewritten. It not only has the ability to, Lee, we gained at least one member who got interested because of this thread, but was unable to join here. So it's not just potential, it's reality. Obviously I agree with all you say, but I promised I would not harp about the pinning issue. I will however, make a public plea to Gary Mack to work with us on this to get the best copies possible of the images. It has been said that GM won't help because it is against self-interest. Maybe there is a kernel of truth in that insofar as his tenure and viability at the 6th floor museum goes, but I'll send JVB a love letter if a successful match to Oswald doesn't open up a whole new world of opportunities for him. What is it going to take, Gary? A petition? Personal letters? Public announcements calling for action? Take a punt, and do it without us needing to organize any of that. Do it because it is the right thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Greg, I wouldn't know why the potential member you talked about can't join. Registration is open by email. All that is needed is a photo, bio, and agreement to abide by the rules. I have had no one attempting to join, who has all of these, not be approved. Kathy, this was prior to you guys taking over when new members were not being accepted. The person saw me mentioned in the PM thread and found my forum that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 This, in my opinion, is the single most important thread contained on this, or any other forum, for a number of specific reasons: The topic and most of the content contained here has the ability to attract new interest in this case. The combination of the thoughtful and meticulous research combined with the tantalising photographic evidence takes us almost to the point of completely and finally closing the case against Oswald once and for all. No if’s – no but’s – no maybe’s. Now, what self-respecting and honest person wouldn’t want that? Only one thing will prove or dismiss the overwhelming possibility and probability that ‘Prayerman’ is Lee Harvey Oswald. High definition scans and technological analysis of the Darnell, Weigman and Towner films are necessary. Given that the captured frames, each and every time we have received better versions, have only made the figure look even more like Oswald I sincerely believe that technology will put the question of identity to bed. I, along with Vanessa, would certainly contribute financially to making this happen. When Buell Wesley Frazier initially declined to identify himself as the person stood to the left of ‘Prayerman’ at the top of the steps, in the exact spot where BWF said he was stood - - even though every single seasoned researcher on the planet could identify him in the picture - - it told us all we needed to know about how unsettling this photograph was to an individual who still holds many secrets. The thread has garnered over 200,000 views and more than 1,600 replies across more than 100 pages. Even the time wasters, nay-sayers and obfuscators couldn’t stop this juggernaut. At this moment in time, the individuals and institutions with the ability and the resources to put this to bed do not seem the slightest bit interested in helping pave the way. Including Mr. JFK himself Robert Groden. That, from my perspective, is interesting, perplexing and quite telling. Perhaps when the issue is settled there will be less $100 books to sell on the knoll? The Sixth Floor Museum has the control and has the power to finish this debate and even though we finally got a confirmation from Buell Wesley Frazier that, yes, the individual stood next to the person who could be his friend Lee Harvey Oswald, was in fact Buell Wesley Frazier, the powers that be have been silent on providing HD film scans of the movies. If ‘Prayerman’ is Oswald the information provided in this thread outlines the exact details of how the case against him was constructed, how witnesses were manipulated and coerced and how evidence was fabricated. I hate to disagree with Bill Kelly here. This one issue is the game-changer. The arguments about the second floor encounter and myriad of other evidence the critics have accumulated over the years will continue unabated. If the question of Prayerman is concluded, and is concluded the way I imagine it will be concluded, there is no debate. It ends. Period. The efforts to work out the real who, how and why will no doubt go on but the vindication of the man who was set-up and accused of performing this heinous crime will be complete and the history books can be rewritten. Hi Lee In regards to No. 2, I read this interesting post from Stan Dane over at Greg's forum, ROKC. "According to Tina Towner: "Due to risk of copyright infringement, none of the photographs taken by my father or me on November 22, 1963, will be posted. "Effective February 2015, The Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza obtained the copyrights to the Towner film and photos. Please contact the museum regarding use of the images." http://www.tinatowner.net/photographs I guess that means Gary Mack is the gatekeeper for any of the Towner images. Wonderful." It seems very strange that the 6th Floor Museum would suddenly move on obtaining copyright to the Towner film, after all these years. I believe our chances of gaining further access to the Towner film are diminishing rapidly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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