Robert Prudhomme Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) Can anyone see what path the Magic Bullet would have taken, if Connally was facing forward at the moment he was struck in the back, and the bullet entrance wound was where Dr. Gregory depicted it to be in the drawing? Edited March 20, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Murr Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Minor point, Bob; the entrance wound as depicted was originally placed approximately as shown on "Gregory Exhibit 1" by Dr. Robert Shaw, not Charles Gregory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) Makes no difference who placed it there, Gary. What path do you think the bullet would have taken? P.S. The intials "R.R.S.", seen on the Gregory diagram, stand for Robert Roeder Shaw. P.P.S. Besides, I never said Dr. Gregory placed the wound there. What exactly are you responding to, Gary? Edited March 20, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 In case anyone is wondering why I am asking this question, let me say that I am going to demonstrate that, if Connally was shot from behind, it had to have happened when he was turned at least 45° to his right. This, of course, makes the SBT an impossibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Robert, from what I can see on post 1 you did indeed suggest that Charles Gregory placed the wound there on the chart. Your actual words " where Dr. Gregory depicted it to be in the drawing." It was Robert Shaw that both drew and labeled that wound. If you never intended to suggest Gregory drew that wound, then your use of language was ambiguous in post 1. Also when you say it makes no difference. I do not agree. It makes all the difference in the world. Robert Shaw was the authority for the chest wound whereas Charles Gregory was the authority for the wrist wound. Therefore the placing on the back wound in that position has all the authority of the surgeon who treated the wound. James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Murr Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I would beg to differ as to who placed the various diagrammatic points of "entry" and "exit" on the five diagrams that make up Gregory Exhibit 1 for as it turns out these diagrams, as presented initially to Dr. Gregory and then later in the day on the same date, March 28, 1964, at PMH, to Dr. Shaw, were not constructed nor marked by either Dr.'s Shaw or Gregory. In truth these specific diagrams were constructed by SS SA Roger Warner, re-traced and based, in theory, upon diagrams marked for him by Gregory and Shaw months before the March deposition sessions at Parkland conducted by Arlen Specter. These "Gregory" diagrams were manufactured by Warner and/or members of the SS staff in conjunction with a request initially placed by David Belin. You are correct, the written notation "R.R.S." was placed on Gregory Exhibit 1, Diagram #1, by Robert Shaw. Indeed all of the "written" notations/corrections on these diagrams are the construct of Shaw, while the block printed changes are the handiwork of Charles Gregory. Shaw placed his initials and the re-drawn size of the wound of entry as he did in response to a request of him by Specter, the reason being that Shaw disagreed with the size of the entry wound as [re]drawn by the SS. It is only my opinion, but I believe that Shaw further outlined/sketched the border/margins of the scapula on this specific drawing in an effort to illustrate that the true point of entry of the wounding missile was actually closer to the governor's "side", a shallow, tunneling wound that passed through anterior/lateral portions of the latissimus dorsi muscle bundle before striking the fifth rib, tangentially, on the lateral/anterior mid-point border of that same rib. In essence, Shaw "agrees" with your proposition that the Governor had to have been turned, and turned rather far to his left, in order for the SBT to be "true," which of course it is not. To answer your original question; you and I both realize that bullets can do strange things once they enter a body. Any answer given to your question of course enters the realm of speculation. However, I would indicate to you that had a bullet entered as "pictured" on this Gregory Diagram, and was following a left-to-right path as is "officially" claimed, then the internal damage suffered by the governor would have been much more severe, indeed approaching the realm of fatal, depending upon which internal organs were struck and the effects of cavitation. FWIW Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Sorry Gary, You are right. I thought I was looking at the January chart. I did not see it was a Warner copy. Robert has yet to indicate when this wounding took place. When we know that we know the position of the car and can then plot the position of Connally. Turning Connally 45º to the right has major implications for the source of the shot, and that can only be determined when we know at what point Robert believes Connally was wounded. Actually, I disagree on your conclusion, if the source of the shot is from the TSBD, then by having Connally turned that far to the right and the source the TSBD it could well a milder wound than Connally actually received: the bullet exiting through the shoulder and out the arm. But, of course, there is the rub. Any simulation must simulate the actual wound. And if the thesis is that Connally is turned 45º to his right there is no way a shot sourced from the TSBD could replicate the injuries suffered. James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger DeLaria Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Would a trajectory from West end of the 6th floor TSBD line up? I remember reading somewhere that was apparently a likely place. I haven't really looked into to it, so i don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 Robert, from what I can see on post 1 you did indeed suggest that Charles Gregory placed the wound there on the chart. Your actual words " where Dr. Gregory depicted it to be in the drawing." It was Robert Shaw that both drew and labeled that wound. If you never intended to suggest Gregory drew that wound, then your use of language was ambiguous in post 1. Also when you say it makes no difference. I do not agree. It makes all the difference in the world. Robert Shaw was the authority for the chest wound whereas Charles Gregory was the authority for the wrist wound. Therefore the placing on the back wound in that position has all the authority of the surgeon who treated the wound. James. Wow, James, I deleted that part of my post within 30 seconds of posting it, after I realized my mistake. Makes me wonder how you and Mr. Murr were able to read that, as neither one of you were on the forum at that particular time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 Okay, everyone responding is completely missing the point of this thread, some I suspect intentionally. Look at the location of the entrance wound on the diagram. According to this drawing, the bullet came about as close to hitting the scapula (shoulder blade) as is possible, without actually hitting it. I might point out here that this drawing depicts the most chicken-chested man I have ever seen, and that the torso is totally out of proportion to the arms and shoulder. Anyways, look at the entrance wound, and then look again at this diagram: If the entrance wound was that close to the scapula, and if Connally was facing forward, it is quite plain to see that the bullet would have gone into Connally's pleural cavity, and entered his right lung. But, that is not what happened. According to Dr. Shaw, the bullet contacted the 5th rib at the mid axillary line. In other words, it hit the 5th rib at the extreme outside right edge of the rib cage, actually some distance from the scapula, if you look at the previous diagrams. This may seem like a small matter, until you read further, and see that Dr. Shaw described a bullet path that stayed on the OUTSIDE of the 5th rib for 10 cm., and never penetrated the pleural cavity. The bullet entered at the mid axillary line, and exited to the LEFT of Connally's right nipple. Therefore, Dr. Shaw describes a bullet path going from right to left across the front of Connally's chest at an angle of about 40°. How could Connally have suffered such an angular wound if he had been facing forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger DeLaria Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) I realize that my post may not be relevant to the thread. James - feel free to delete my my comment if it doesn't fit. Edited March 21, 2015 by Roger DeLaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) Roger If Connally was facing forward when he was shot, a shot from the west end of the TSBD is the only shot that would allow a bullet to traverse a right to left angle across the front of his chest. As the Sniper's Nest at the SE corner of the 6th floor of the TSBD was only 9° laterally separated from a longitudinal line, drawn down the centre of the limo at z224, a shot from this end of the building would have only grazed the outside of his 5th rib, and could not have exited to the left of his right nipple. Once again, we are assuming Connally was facing forward. Edited March 21, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 So, if Connally was shot from behind, and he was facing forward, and the bullet impacted his 5th rib at the right mid axillary line, or extreme outer lateral point of his rib cage, the bullet could not follow the course of his 5th rib around to the front of his chest, to exit just to the left of his right nipple. The bullet, in this scenario, would simply have grazed the 5th rib, and continued on its way. The only way the bullet could have followed a course from right mid axillary line to an exit just to the left of his right nipple would be if Connally was turned to his right by almost 45°. As Connally is not turned in this fashion any time close to the time claimed by the WC for the SBT, the SBT is once again proven to be an outrageous lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Milch Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) This subject thread should really start to cook when Robert Mady gets in here with his 4 shot model; the shooters firing from the pergola (behind it, on top of it, inside either or both shelters, in front of it or a combo of those locations are the 5 possibilities of shooter locations at the pergola). Other rear or side attackers analysts will direct the line of fire from a shooter (or shooters) back to the TSBD, Dal-Tex, Records, County Courts, Federal Annex buildings, South pergola, SS follow-up car or the Elm Street sidewalk. Forward & side attackers analysts will go with the 3 street storm drains, South pergola & knoll, corner of the TUP (top to pedestrian sidewalk enclosure) & the North stockade fence or the rail yards behind it that contained several Pullman train cars connected together & a tall railroad signal lights tower. When those analysts join the thread with their viewpoints, what's cooking should reach the boiling stage (lol). I love threads like this one, I take a lot of notes & stay out of the crossfire as best I can. It's a great thread for those absorbing the 'Oswald leaving the TSBD' thread to also absorb. If LHO is Prayerman at the TSBD front entrance in the Darnell film, that means someone else shot JFK & John Connally. This thread will help us understand where the shooter of John Connally was positioned. BM Edited March 24, 2015 by Brad Milch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 I think the absolute proof of a shooter(s) from the rear is not just Connally's back wound but JFK's back wound, as well. As I pointed out earlier in another thread, there is really no position Connally could have been in to receive his wound from beside the limo, or in front of the limo. The steepness of the bullet path that followed the 5th rib downward, and the right to left traverse across Connally's chest precludes anything but a shot from behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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