Who saw Baker enter the TSBD?

[Guest]

Yes Bob, Piper's testimonies were a mess no doubt.

But the second part of his testimony in front of the WC feels coached and more to substantiate things that sounded too loose/vague in his first sesh and needed to be more concise on certain points, but Warren Commission style concise if you ask me.

The Vicky Adams play is one thing, the fact that I don't see anything about Dougherty is another.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Bart Kamp

[David Lifton]

In case I have not made myself clear enough, there seems to be an awful lot of people who should have seen a helmeted motorcycle cop entering the front of the TSBD and who, for some strange reason, have no memory of seeing him.

Until I see some corroborating evidence, I must assume Baker's story is, in part, fabricated.

Roibert:

I fail to see how you can make this claim.

On November 22, 1963, Truly was interviewed by FBI Agents Doyle Williams and Nat Pinkston. (Their interview report is CD 5, p. 322-323); The next day, Truly was interviewed by FBI Agent Kenneth Jackson. In both interviews, Truly describes in detail how he saw Baker heading towards the building, and then joined him in entering the building.

Here is an excerpt from the 11/22/63 FBI interview of Truly:

"Shortly after 12:30 p.m., as the presidential motorcade did pass in front of the building, he heard what he to be three shots. . . . He then noticed a Dallas City Police officer wearing a motorcycle helmet and boots running towards the entrance of the depository building and he accompanied the officer immediately up the stairs to the second floor of the building where the officer noticed a door door (INSERT: He "noticed a door"??) and stepped through the door, gun in hand, and observed Oswald in a snack bar there, apparently alone. . . . The officer pointed to Oswald and asked if Oswald was an employee of the comany and, TRULY, assured the officer that OSWALD was an employee. He and the officer then proeeded onto the roof of the building. . ." etc.

FYI: As I noted, there's another FBI interview of Truly, by a different FBI agent, the next day, which says essentially the same thing.

I don't understand how,given this data, you can credibly maintain that Baker's story is ("in part") fabricated.

Perhaps you can explain.

IMHO: The problem with Officer Baker's story is not that he fabricated his entry to the building. The problem is the manner in which he immediately headed towards the building, and then veered off at the lunchroom, gun in hand, to confront Oswald.

FYI: In the original handwritten draft of his statement, he said that he "imagined" (or words to that effect) that the shots came from the building. It was a day or so later that he came up with the story that he ran to the building because he saw pigeons flying from the roof. (Clearly, a substantive change in his "probable cause" from one day to the next).

I could elaborate on other details of Baker's account that are problematic, but that is the essence of the problem. WHy did he immediately dismount and run toward the building, why did he seem to know where Oswald was? Why was he approaching the lunchroom, with its closed door, gun already in hand? etc.

I think your emphasis on whether or not he entered the building, and your suspicion that his entire story was "fabricated" is unwarranted.

DSL

4/17/16 -2:40 AM PDT

Los Angeles, California

Edited April 17, 2016 by David Lifton

[Robert Prudhomme]

Hi David

My premise is not about whether or not Baker entered the TSBD. For the record, I believe he did.The real question, though, was when he entered the TSBD. There are simply too many things wrong with the statements and testimonies of other witnesses, IMO, to allow him and Truly to be running up the stairs as early as they claimed to be doing so.

[Don Jeffries]

For me, the curious thing about Baker is that he appears to have been the only law enforcement officer in Dealey Plaza whose attention was immediately drawn to the TSBD. Remember, a number of witnesses inside or directly outside the TSBD thought the shots were coming from the knoll area.

The Baker story is odd, but much like the Zapruder film, it has been used for decades to buttress the critics' argument that Oswald could not have fired the shots, hidden the rifle, and appeared where Baker allegedly confronted him, calm and, at least as originally reported, with his trusty Coke in hand. As David noted, there was no logical reason for him to be suspicious of Oswald.

David, did you ever interview Baker? I can't recall any of the early critics questioning him about his story.

[Sandy Larsen]

For me, the curious thing about Baker is that he appears to have been the only law enforcement officer in Dealey Plaza whose attention was immediately drawn to the TSBD. Remember, a number of witnesses inside or directly outside the TSBD thought the shots were coming from the knoll area.

The Baker story is odd, but much like the Zapruder film, it has been used for decades to buttress the critics' argument that Oswald could not have fired the shots, hidden the rifle, and appeared where Baker allegedly confronted him, calm and, at least as originally reported, with his trusty Coke in hand. As David noted, there was no logical reason for him to be suspicious of Oswald.

David, did you ever interview Baker? I can't recall any of the early critics questioning him about his story.

Don,

I don't believe Baker's suspicions were directed at the TSBD either. At least not initially. Because he was headed for somewhere other than the TSBD at first. See my new presentation for what I believe to be strong evidence for this statement.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Sandy Larsen

[David Lifton]

No, I did not in

For me, the curious thing about Baker is that he appears to have been the only law enforcement officer in Dealey Plaza whose attention was immediately drawn to the TSBD. Remember, a number of witnesses inside or directly outside the TSBD thought the shots were coming from the knoll area.

The Baker story is odd, but much like the Zapruder film, it has been used for decades to buttress the critics' argument that Oswald could not have fired the shots, hidden the rifle, and appeared where Baker allegedly confronted him, calm and, at least as originally reported, with his trusty Coke in hand. As David noted, there was no logical reason for him to be suspicious of Oswald.

David, did you ever interview Baker? I can't recall any of the early critics questioning him about his story.

Don:

No, I did not interview Baker, but I know of someone who did--back around 1985 (plus or minus) and sent me a VHS copy of the interview (now in storage).

The interviewer was a southerner, and perhaps thats what broke the ice.

Recollection is fuzzy, but. . Baker struck me as very nervous, and came off as non-credible.

He was interviewed along with some of the other cycle cops. As I recall, Baker came off as "the worst", but none of them were superstars, when it came to credibility.

FWIW: I think the constant repetition of this false (or, at least, this "peculiar") story made it easier, with the passage of years, to repeat it; so his delivery got better with time.

One other thing: I am very suspicious of Baker's account. Had I been a special prosecutor, I would have done an in depth investigation of his finances, to see if there was any evidence of his having received unexplained money. Having said that, I must also report that someone who met Baker--years later---assured me that he was living in the m ost modest of circumstances, in a trialor (or RV), and did not appear to have a lifestyleof somene who had been "paid off."

DSL

Edited April 19, 2016 by David Lifton

[Guest]

@David Lifton any chance of that VHS tape seeing the light of day?

I could digitise it as I have the facilities for it.

Thank you.