Silvia Odio and Other Inconvenient Witnesses

[Paul Brancato]

Weberman named the CIA as being behind the assassination, and claimed that Sturgis and Hunt were two of the three tramps. That's according to Wiki. Is that your opinion Paul?

[Paul Trejo]

Weberman named the CIA as being behind the assassination, and claimed that Sturgis and Hunt were two of the three tramps. That's according to Wiki. Is that your opinion Paul?

No, Paul B., that's not my point,

My point is that A.J Weberman correctly identified Gerry Patrick Hemming in a central role in the JFK murder. It seems to me that most CTers don't agree with Weberman on this issue -- but on this issue, Weberman is correct and the majority are mistaken.

We have correspondence, for example, from Gerry Patrick Hemming to Ex-General Edwin Walker in Dallas in 1963, that is available for perusal in the personal papers of Edwin Walker now archived at UT Austin.

The context of this correspondence was about getting financial support for Interpen. This correspondence dates from earlier in 1963, when rumors abounded that Walker was winning millions in court cases, suing US newspapers that told the truth about his Ole Miss escapade in 1962.

Like Harold Wiesberg, Jim Garrison and Joan Mellon, Weberman might have been tempted sometimes to blame the CIA for the whole mess -- but regarding the suspects whom they actually identified with their own work -- NOT ONE of them was a CIA Officer -- the actual suspects were generally common mercenaries; at most part-time "assets" for this or that Cuban op for the CIA.

Thus, the CIA cannot be held accountable for everything one or more of these local mercenaries might or might not have done.

Gerry Patrick Hemming was never a CIA Officer. CTers have no evidence that Hemming was under CIA orders during his part in the JFK murder.

In my reading, Hemming was under the control of a Civilian Paramilitary organization involving the Minutemen and wild-eyed rogues.

Sincerely,

Paul Trejo

Edited June 14, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Mark Knight]

My point--in case you missed it, Mr. Trejo--is that, unless we know WHERE Hemming called Oswald, we can't investigate whether the call ever took place. Does anyone at the TSBD say that Oswald took any calls at work? I can pretty much rule out Hemming calling Oswald at his rooming house the evening of the 21st...since Oswald went to the Payne home. If the call was made to the Payne residence, I find it strange that neither Marina nor Ruth Payne ever mentioned it in her testimony. And Buell Wesley Frazier never mentioned stopping at some pay telephone on the way home for Oswald to wait for a call he was "expecting."

The point I'm making is...if we believe that Hemming made such a call and discussed Oswald bringing his rifle to work on Friday, we must also believe that Oswald received that call. From the evidence we have to this point, we cannot establish that Oswald ever received such a call. If we cannot show that Oswald ever received such a call the likelihood that he did is GREATLY diminished.

If we cannot establish that Oswald ever received such a call, we must then question whether Hemming's claim to making such a call will stand up to scrutiny. My take, at this point, is that Hemming's claim does not stand.

I would LOVE to believe that Hemming made that call, and that Oswald talked with him. This would tend to strengthen the idea that Oswald never fired any rifle shots that day, but he merely stashed the rifle in the TSBD. [i'm on board with the concept that Oswald never fired the rifle that day, BTW.] But the evidence just isn't there to support Hemming's claim...no matter HOW much we WISH it was true.

[Paul Trejo]

My point--in case you missed it, Mr. Trejo--is that, unless we know WHERE Hemming called Oswald, we can't investigate whether the call ever took place. Does anyone at the TSBD say that Oswald took any calls at work? I can pretty much rule out Hemming calling Oswald at his rooming house the evening of the 21st...since Oswald went to the Payne home. If the call was made to the Payne residence, I find it strange that neither Marina nor Ruth Payne ever mentioned it in her testimony. And Buell Wesley Frazier never mentioned stopping at some pay telephone on the way home for Oswald to wait for a call he was "expecting."

The point I'm making is...if we believe that Hemming made such a call and discussed Oswald bringing his rifle to work on Friday, we must also believe that Oswald received that call. From the evidence we have to this point, we cannot establish that Oswald ever received such a call. If we cannot show that Oswald ever received such a call the likelihood that he did is GREATLY diminished.

If we cannot establish that Oswald ever received such a call, we must then question whether Hemming's claim to making such a call will stand up to scrutiny. My take, at this point, is that Hemming's claim does not stand.

I would LOVE to believe that Hemming made that call, and that Oswald talked with him. This would tend to strengthen the idea that Oswald never fired any rifle shots that day, but he merely stashed the rifle in the TSBD. [i'm on board with the concept that Oswald never fired the rifle that day, BTW.] But the evidence just isn't there to support Hemming's claim...no matter HOW much we WISH it was true.

Well, I still don't think your point is very strong, Mark. Unlike today, pay telephones were common in 1963. Every gas station used to have one. So did most restaurants. So did many grocery stores. The same applied to bowling alleys, shooting ranges, and other entertainment spots.

Public telephones were ubiquitous in 1963.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited June 20, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Mark Knight]

You're avoiding answering the question. You say that Hemming claims HE called OSWALD...and NOT the other way around. If it was a case of OSWALD calling HEMMING, the random pay phone scenario might be possible. But the story is that HEMMING placed the call TO OSWALD.

I'm pretty sure Hemming didn't simply call random pay phones around Dallas on the evening of November 21, 1963 and hope that Oswald answered.

So where did Hemming call Oswald on the evening of November 21, 1963...to be sure that he actually reached Oswald? I'm pretty sure Frazier never mentioned stopping on the way home for Oswald to make or take a call...and in Marina's and Ruth Paine's testimonies, I don't recall either of them saying that Oswald left for any length of time that evening, in case he was going out to take a call at a pay phone.

Yes, there were likely hundreds of pay phones in the Dallas metropolitan area. But can we place Oswald at even ONE of them on the evening of November 21, 1963? If we cannot, then the possibility that a pay phone was used for Oswald to receive a call from Hemming on November 21, 1963 is reduced to almost zero.

And if we cannot make the phone call a possibility, then it also reduces the possibility of Oswald taking the rifle to work on the 22nd at the request of Hemming near zero as well...no matter how much BOTH of us might wish it to be true.

And may I remind you...the question is whether or not Hemming called Oswald, as Hemming allegedly claimed, on November 21, 1963...and NO OTHER DAY.

[Kenneth Drew]

You're avoiding answering the question. You say that Hemming claims HE called OSWALD...and NOT the other way around. If it was a case of OSWALD calling HEMMING, the random pay phone scenario might be possible. But the story is that HEMMING placed the call TO OSWALD.

I'm pretty sure Hemming didn't simply call random pay phones around Dallas on the evening of November 21, 1963 and hope that Oswald answered.

So where did Hemming call Oswald on the evening of November 21, 1963...to be sure that he actually reached Oswald? I'm pretty sure Frazier never mentioned stopping on the way home for Oswald to make or take a call...and in Marina's and Ruth Paine's testimonies, I don't recall either of them saying that Oswald left for any length of time that evening, in case he was going out to take a call at a pay phone.

Yes, there were likely hundreds of pay phones in the Dallas metropolitan area. But can we place Oswald at even ONE of them on the evening of November 21, 1963? If we cannot, then the possibility that a pay phone was used for Oswald to receive a call from Hemming on November 21, 1963 is reduced to almost zero.

And if we cannot make the phone call a possibility, then it also reduces the possibility of Oswald taking the rifle to work on the 22nd at the request of Hemming near zero as well...no matter how much BOTH of us might wish it to be true.

And may I remind you...the question is whether or not Hemming called Oswald, as Hemming allegedly claimed, on November 21, 1963...and NO OTHER DAY.

Is there a reason to assume that if Hemming called LHO on the 21st that it was not at the TSBD? I understand he couldn't easily have called him anywhere else, but the BD seems like the logical place. Did employees normally get called at work there? Why would he call him about a Man-Carcano rifle? There is no evidence that LHO had one of those?

Edited June 20, 2015 by Kenneth Drew

[Mark Knight]

Paul Trejo has claimed that Hemming reported [to AJ Weberman] that the reason Oswald brought the rifle to the TSBD on November 22nd is because Hemming called Oswald on the telephone on the 21st and offered Oswald twice what he paid for the rifle, if he'd bring it to work with him the next day.

There is no testimony in the WC archives that says that Oswald received such a call on the 21st from Hemming or anyone else. In fact, there is no testimony on record that Oswald was called to the phone at the TSBD at all. So...for Mr. Trejo to convince us that Hemming called Oswald, first we have to establish that Oswald could have taken such a call. There is no evidence on record that Oswald received such a call...other than Weberman's report that Hemming told him that the call occurred. And since the late Mr. Hemming had a reputation as a teller of untruths, it's difficult to take Weberman's account at face value without some sort of corroborating evidence.

And to this point, I've found no corroborating evidence that such a call ever occurred. I exchanged many emails with Mr' Hemming before his death, and even within them I find no corroboration for the claimed call to Oswald.

So I'm asking Mr. Trejo to give us "something to hang our hat on" regarding Weberman's claim. I've not even gotten into the discussion of whether or not Oswald had the rifle in his possession on November 21st, 1963. If Mr. Trejo can give us evidence that Oswald received ANY phone call on November 21, 1963, then he might have a place upon which to build his story.

[Paul Trejo]

Paul Trejo has claimed that Hemming reported [to AJ Weberman] that the reason Oswald brought the rifle to the TSBD on November 22nd is because Hemming called Oswald on the telephone on the 21st and offered Oswald twice what he paid for the rifle, if he'd bring it to work with him the next day.

There is no testimony in the WC archives that says that Oswald received such a call on the 21st from Hemming or anyone else. In fact, there is no testimony on record that Oswald was called to the phone at the TSBD at all. So...for Mr. Trejo to convince us that Hemming called Oswald, first we have to establish that Oswald could have taken such a call. There is no evidence on record that Oswald received such a call...other than Weberman's report that Hemming told him that the call occurred. And since the late Mr. Hemming had a reputation as a teller of untruths, it's difficult to take Weberman's account at face value without some sort of corroborating evidence.

And to this point, I've found no corroborating evidence that such a call ever occurred. I exchanged many emails with Mr' Hemming before his death, and even within them I find no corroboration for the claimed call to Oswald.

So I'm asking Mr. Trejo to give us "something to hang our hat on" regarding Weberman's claim. I've not even gotten into the discussion of whether or not Oswald had the rifle in his possession on November 21st, 1963. If Mr. Trejo can give us evidence that Oswald received ANY phone call on November 21, 1963, then he might have a place upon which to build his story.

Nobody said the WC had this testimony, Mark.

How many times must I repeat that AJ Weberman is the source of this story that Gerry Patrick Hemming confessed to offering, over the telephone, Lee Harvey Oswald double the price of his personal rifle if he would bring it to the TSBD building the following morning. Hemming was in Miami; Oswald was in Dallas.

As for using pay phones in criminal and other clandestine activities, it is common practice to tell a confederate the number of a local pay phone, and then schedule phone calls between the two parties. I would suspect that two CIA-trainees (wannabes) like Hemming and Oswald would know how to exploit pay telephones.

Is that really a stretch of logic? I don't think so.

I still say somebody should beg A.J. Weberman to contribute to this thread about his milestone work in JFK Research.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited June 20, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

Getting back to Sylvia Odio and her vital claim that she saw LHO at her front porch with two Latinos, trying to scam her for support for their Anti-Castro crusade, I want to try to introduce the claims of Harry Dean in this thread.

Harry Dean claims that he personally knew Loran Hall and Larry Howard in 1963, and often helped them load their trailer with supplies from well-to-do John Birch Society members -- usually doctors, dentists and lawyers -- who would contribute weapons and drugs to the Anti-Castro Raid groups like Interpen, La Sambra and many others.

Harry Dean claims that in September, 1963, after loading up a trailer in Southern California, he personally witnessed Loran Hall and Larry Howard receive cash from Gabby Gabaldon, a JBS figure, in order to specifically drive LHO from New Orleans to Mexico City -- through Dallas, once they arrived in New Orleans.

Harry Dean says that Loran and Larry used "war names" when they were on the road and on raids. As he recalled, Loran's war name was "Lorenzo" and Larry's war name was "Alonzo".

Harry Dean is convinced that the two Latinos at Sylvia Odio's door were Loran Hall and Larry Howard.

The fact that Sylvia would not identify them from photographs might be explained by poor photographs, or it might be explained by Sylvia's terror of Loran Hall, who was pushy and violent -- and her fear that the FBI would not protect her, since they wanted to squash her "Conspiracy" claims which shot down their "Lone Nut" dogma.

The money from Gabby Gabaldon came indirectly from Congressman John Rousselot, said Harry, but more directly from General Walker and his financiers.

Given a Walker-did-it CT, Harry Dean's claims tie up a lot of loose ends.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 6, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Steve Thomas]

For a long time I have been fascinated by a little-known and not-discussed incident that Sylvia Odio refers to in an FBI October, 1964 interview.

You can find it here: http://media.nara.gov/dc-metro/rg-272/605417-key-persons/odio_silvia/odio_silvia.pdf

On Page 3 of that interview summary, Sylvia says that a bunch of Cuban families at the Crestwood Apartment Complex on Magellan Circle would get together occasionally, and that on one occasion, the son of a man named Masferrer got into a fight with another individual, and that that fight "deteriorated into a general disturbance, to which the police were called."

Does anyone know of any press stories or police reports about this incident.

I have a vague memory of that fight being referred to by someone else, perhaps an FBI interview with Kiki Masferrer?

In her interview summary, Sylvia doesn't say when this fight took place, but I have a suspicion it happened in October, 1963. Someday I am going to compile a list of the things that were going on in Dallas in October, 1963:

Adlai Stevenson incident

Larry Schmidt and Bernard Weisman

Alpha 66 guys storing protest signs at Walker's residence

Loren Hall and Lawrence Howard visits to Dallas

Miller and Whittier gunrunning

meetings (at least one conducted in Spanish and one in English) taking place at banks (at least one where it has been alleged Oswald attended).

So many things swirling around.

Steve Thomas

[Paul Trejo]

For a long time I have been fascinated by a little-known and not-discussed incident that Sylvia Odio refers to in an FBI October, 1964 interview.

You can find it here: http://media.nara.gov/dc-metro/rg-272/605417-key-persons/odio_silvia/odio_silvia.pdf

On Page 3 of that interview summary, Sylvia says that a bunch of Cuban families at the Crestwood Apartment Complex on Magellan Circle would get together occasionally, and that on one occasion, the son of a man named Masferrer got into a fight with another individual, and that that fight "deteriorated into a general disturbance, to which the police were called."

Does anyone know of any press stories or police reports about this incident.

I have a vague memory of that fight being referred to by someone else, perhaps an FBI interview with Kiki Masferrer?

In her interview summary, Sylvia doesn't say when this fight took place, but I have a suspicion it happened in October, 1963. Someday I am going to compile a list of the things that were going on in Dallas in October, 1963:

Adlai Stevenson incident

Larry Schmidt and Bernard Weisman

Alpha 66 guys storing protest signs at Walker's residence

Loren Hall and Lawrence Howard visits to Dallas

Miller and Whittier gunrunning

meetings (at least one conducted in Spanish and one in English) taking place at banks (at least one where it has been alleged Oswald attended).

So many things swirling around.

Steve Thomas

Thanks for the perspective, Steve.

I invite you to consider the fresh, new, Walker-did-it CT that got a new boost last September when Jeff Caufield's new book was published. The title of that book is, General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy: Extensive New Evidence of a Radical Right Conspiracy (2015). It's over 900 pages in length.

I say new theory, but Harry Dean first broadcast this theory in January 1965 on the Joe Pyne show. But it got little traction after the Mark Lane and Jim Garrison blockbusters (which never solved the murder).

Silvia Odio is, to me, an eminently believable witness. it's a shame how the FBI and WC shut down her testimony.

As for Kiki Masferrer, he's part of the circle of Loran Hall and Larry Howard -- and Loran Hall might have got the idea to visit Silvia Odio from Kiki. Gerry Patrick Hemming was also familiar with Kiki Masferrer, who practically lived next door to Silvia Odio in September 1963.

As for dating that fight incident, remember that Silvia moved out of that apartment complex soon after the LHO visit, so perhaps the fight occurred before September, or earlier in September while she was still there.

As for the Adlai Stevenson incident of October 24th 1963 in Dallas, scholar Chris Cravens published in 1990 that General Walker was the mastermind of that incident. Many people only know about the spitting and hitting incidents, where two people were arrested -- but it was far worse than that. The entire Auditorium was booby trapped.

The JBS had a standing rule: "Never let a Communist finish a speech in your home town." General Walker took that rule seriously, and he organized US Day, the night before Adlai's UN Day. They plotted to purchase all of the tickets of the speech -- or as many as possible -- and then to show up with Halloween noisemakers. They planned ways to interrupt the speech every 60 seconds.

It was political theater inside. Banners unfurled from the ceiling. They succeeded, as Adlai could not read his entire speech -- he cut it short and left early. The spitting and hitting outside was not planned -- but was spontaneous -- but by that time Adlai was totally frazzled. General Walker had a good belly-laugh about it.

Larrie Schmidt and Bernard Weisman are still alive. Larrie admits that he helped to booby-trap the Dallas Memorial Auditorium on the night of October 23rd 1963. Bernard Weisman was mostly an innocent bystander, though Larrie convinced him to sign his name to the Black-bordered Ad -- a decision he still regrets down to this very day. Weisman was convinced that Jack Ruby was stalking him on 11/23/1963.

Bernard Weisman also testified that Larrie's brother, Robbie Schmidt, who was General Walker's chauffeur, was riding around in General Walker's car with a stack of WANTED FOR TREASON: JFK handbills in the back seat.

When Loran Hall was arrested in Dallas for drug possession (which was merely a trailer full of weapons and medicines destined for Cuba Raid groups in NOLA and Miami) he was released by the assistance of General Walker's lawyer, Robert Morris. Loran Hall also visited General Walker at that time, along with Warren Reynolds. Loran said he suspected Walker and Reynolds were gay (which they were).

Your interests, Steve, probably also include the WC affidavit of ATF Agent Frank Ellsworth, who tracked Cuban Exile gun-running in Dallas, and was convinced that the Dallas Minutemen under General Walker were "the most likely to kill JFK in Dallas."

In other words -- your intuition seems to be drawing you closer to the Walker-did-it CT. I think it's the correct solution to the JFK murder.

In other words, Silvia Odio was telling the TRUTH.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 6, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Steve Thomas]

Paul,

Your interests, Steve, probably also include the WC affidavit of ATF Agent Frank Ellsworth, who tracked Cuban Exile gun-running in Dallas, and was convinced that the Dallas Minutemen under General Walker were "the most likely to kill JFK in Dallas."

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Section 10, p. 6 of the FBI Liason Files, which you can find here:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62237

references a visit to Frank Ellsworth by Burt Griffin and Dallas SS Agent, William Patterson in April of 1964. In Section 25, on page 183 of those same Liason Files, it says that during Griffin's questioning of Ellsworth concerning Cuban exile gun-running activities, he asked Ellsworth what he knew about two FBI agents and the possible witholding of information. Do you know who Griffin might have been referring to?

Steve Thomas

[Paul Trejo]

Paul,

Section 10, p. 6 of the FBI Liason Files, which you can find here:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62237

references a visit to Frank Ellsworth by Burt Griffin and Dallas SS Agent, William Patterson in April of 1964. In Section 25, on page 183 of those same Liason Files, it says that during Griffin's questioning of Ellsworth concerning Cuban exile gun-running activities, he asked Ellsworth what he knew about two FBI agents and the possible witholding of information. Do you know who Griffin might have been referring to?

Steve Thomas

Steve, I appreciate the link to Mary Ferrell's site -- but I can't locate Section 10, p. 6 of the FBI Liason Files. The are 205 pages in that file -- and page 6 doesn't have the data you cite.

You're right that ATF Agent Frank Ellsworth reported to Burt Griffin of the Warren Commission. Griffin was hired to work on the Jack Ruby case, but then he wasn't allowed to ask the questions he wanted to ask. So, he also snooped around into the JFK murder as well.

As for page 183 of those FBI Liaison files, I don't know which two FBI agents were possibly withholding information. I can only guess that James Hosty was one of them -- he was so close to the Dallas action -- and to General Walker through Robert Allen Surrey -- that I find it impossible that James Hosty was surprised by the JFK murder.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 6, 2015 by Paul Trejo