Silvia Odio and Other Inconvenient Witnesses

[David Josephs]

Reading Parker's twisted explanation of what Sylvia said about who she was introduced to and who her sister recognized is nice and all... but it's just his impression of what he thinks Odio means...

He would have us believe that calling someone back the VERY NEXT DAY after introducing someone as LEON OSWALD, and then calling this person LEON or THE AMERICAN.... what? they no longer referred to this person Sylvia knew as LEON OSWALD?

That's what he is trying to sell here.

I do not agree with Don if he said that LEON was not HARVEY OSWALD the man Ruby killed. It was. And there is simply nothing Parker has or can offer to change this...

as badly as he'd like to.

Testimony of Sylvia Odio:

he was introduced to me as Leon Oswald. And they showed me a

picture of Oswald and a picture of Ruby. I did not know Ruby, but I did

recall Oswald.

that it was something very brief and I could not recall the time, exact date.

I still can’t. We more or less have established that it was the end of September.

and, of course, my sister had recognized him at the same time I did, but I did

not say anything to her. She came very excited one day and said, “That is

the man that was in my house.” And I said, “Yes; I remember.”

It either was a Thursday or a Friday. It must have been either one of those

days, in the last days of September. And I was getting dressed to go out to

a friend’s house, and she was staying to babysit.

And he said, “We wanted you to meet this American. His name is Leon Oswald.” He repeated it twice.

Mrs. ODIO: Well, her reaction to it when Oswald came on television, she

almost passed out on me, just like I did the day at work when I learned about

the assassination of the President. Her reaction was so obvious that it was

him, I mean. And my reaction, we remember Oswald the day he came to my

house because he had not shaved and he had a kind of a very, I don’t know how

to express it, but some little hairs like if you haven’t shaved, but it is not a

thick moustache, but some kind of shadow. That is something I noticed. And

he was wearing-the other ones were wearing white dirty shirts, but he was

wearing a long sleeved shirt.

[Greg Parker]

Reading Parker's twisted explanation of what Sylvia said about who she was introduced to and who her sister recognized is nice and all... but it's just his impression of what he thinks Odio means...

In what way is it twisted? Be specific.

In what way is directly quoting testimony only giving my "impression". Be specific.

She never claimed she fainted because she recognized Oswald. Her sister was the one who fainted from believing she recognized him.

Here is more from Odio's testimony

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you tell Father McKann [sic] that the name Oswald was never used in your presence by any of these men?

Mrs. ODIO. Never was used except to introduce me, and the time when they left. They did not refer to him as Oswald.

Her answers to the question regarding the name Oswald are at best, confusing and contradictory.

Are you claiming that a man of the cloth lied to the authorities when he told them that she never heard the name Oswald used by the men?

[David Josephs]

Reading Parker's twisted explanation of what Sylvia said about who she was introduced to and who her sister recognized is nice and all... but it's just his impression of what he thinks Odio means...

In what way is it twisted? Be specific.

In what way is directly quoting testimony only giving my "impression". Be specific.

She never claimed she fainted because she recognized Oswald. Her sister was the one who fainted from believing she recognized him.

Here is more from Odio's testimony

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you tell Father McKann [sic] that the name Oswald was never used in your presence by any of these men?

Mrs. ODIO. Never was used except to introduce me, and the time when they left. They did not refer to him as Oswald.

Her answers to the question regarding the name Oswald are at best, confusing and contradictory.

Are you claiming that a man of the cloth lied to the authorities when he told them that she never heard the name Oswald used by the men?

No - I'm claiming that your interpretation skills are speculation-based at best...

When speaking english the word EXCEPT means that a condition exited OTHER than what was described...

They did not refer to him as Oswald EXCEPT 1) when they introduced me and 2) when they left.

How many times do you use a full name of someone once introduced... "Hello this is Greg Parker" "Greg here wants to kill JFK and get paid for it" "Greg says he's a crazy ex-marine"

No need to keep repeating the last name... and when they call the next day - and say nothing but specifically incriminating things about LEON OSWALD who they introduced to two Odio sisters the day before, who do you think they are referring to other than Leon Oswald, the man at their door, the man they immediately identify as the man Ruby killed.

Only confusing and contradictory to you Greg Parker... The man of the cloth told the truth... EXCEPT FOR INTRODUCING HIM AND WHEN THEY LEFT, they only used his first name...

"she never heard the name Oswald used by the men" is simply not true... these men may not have used the name OSWALD over the phone, yet she and the men talking knew exactly who they were referring to - the man introduced and as he was leaving was known to Odio as LEON OSWALD...

Only you seem to be confused here Greg Parker... for according to you if I was to post "only you Greg" - you and I would have no idea who we were talking about...

and as usual - you cherry-pick a sentence out of context and conveniently drop the next question and answer:

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you tell Father McKann that the name Oswald was never used in your presence by any of these men?

Mrs. ODIO. Never was used except to introduce me, and the time when they left. They did not refer to him as Oswald.

Mr. LIEBELER. But they did in fact, introduce him as Leon Oswald?

Mrs. ODIO. And I shook hands with him.

Can you not offer anything without trying to hide something which easily contradicts your "analysis"?

And he said, "We wanted you to meet this American. His name is Leon Oswald." He repeated it twice.

Mrs. ODIO. The next day Leopoldo called me. I had gotten home from work, so I imagine it must have been Friday. And they had come on Thursday. I have been trying to establish that. He was trying to get fresh with me that night. He was trying to be too nice, telling me that I was pretty, and he started like that. That is the way he started the conversation. Then he said, "What do you think of the American?" And I said, "I didn't think anything."

And he said, "You know our idea is to introduce him to the underground in Cuba, because he is great, he is kind of nuts." This was more or less--I can't repeat the exact words, because he was kind of nuts. He told us we don't have any guts, you Cubans, because President Kennedy should have been assassinated filter the Bay of Pigs, and some Cubans should have done that, because he was the one that was holding the freedom of Cuba actually. And I started getting a little upset with the conversation.

And he said, "It is so easy to do it." He has told us. And he (Leopoldo) used two or three bad words, and I wouldn't repeat it in Spanish. And he repeated again they were leaving for a trip and they would like very much to see me on their return to Dallas. Then he mentioned something more about Oswald. They called him Leon. He never mentioned the name Oswald.

Mr. LIEBELER. He never mentioned the name of Oswald on the telephone?

Mrs. ODIO. He never mentioned his last name. He alway. s referred to the American or Leon.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did he mention his last name the night before?

Mrs. ODIO. Before they left I asked their names again, and he mentioned their names again.

Mr. LIEBELER. But he did not mention Oswald's name except as Leon?

Mrs. ODIO. On the telephone conversation he referred to him as Leon or American. He said he had been a Marine and he was so interested in helping the Cubans, and he was terrific

Edited April 27, 2015 by Kathy Beckett

[David Josephs]

Guess he picked a real good time to leave...

Fonzi's The Last Investigation:

Based on background and character alone, Silvia and Annie highly were highly credible. Nevertheless, the subsequent heavy checking I did of their story absolutely convinced me they were telling the truth. One of the major factors was that Silvia Odio had told more than one person of the incident before the Kennedy assassination. She wrote to her father in prison and told him of the visit of the three strangers. The Warren Commission obtained a copy of his reply warning her to he careful because he did not know them. I spoke to Amador Odio himself. He and his wife were released from Cuban prison a few years ago and are also living in Miami now. No longer wealthy (he was working at night in a low manager's job for an airline),but still proud and idealistic, a handsome old gentleman who exudes a quite dignity, he confirmed receiving the letter from Silvia and his reply. More specifically, Dr. Burton Einspruch, the psychiatrist who was counseling Silvia at the time, recalled that she had him prior to the assassination of the visit of the two Latins and the American and that he remembered calling her on the day of the assassination. He said she mentioned "Leon" and in what he called "a sort of histrionic way," connected he visit of "Leon'- to the Kennedy assassination

[Guest Mark Valenti]

When did Lee wear a moustache?

[David Josephs]

When did Lee wear a moustache?

where did you read he had? maybe a 2nd day 5:00 shadow after driving from New Orleans to Dallas?

we remember Oswald the day he came to my

house because he had not shaved and he had a kind of a very, I don’t know how

to express it, but some little hairs like if you haven’t shaved, but it is not a

thick moustache, but some kind of shadow

[Guest Mark Valenti]

When did Lee wear a moustache?

where did you read he had? maybe a 2nd day 5:00 shadow after driving from New Orleans to Dallas?

we remember Oswald the day he came to my

house because he had not shaved and he had a kind of a very, I don’t know how

to express it, but some little hairs like if you haven’t shaved, but it is not a

thick moustache, but some kind of shadow

LIEBELER: Is that the man who was in your apartment?

SILVIA: Yes.

LIEBELER: Are you sure?

SILVIA: He doesn't have the little thing, the little moustache that he had that day. He looks shaved there, and he did not look shaved that day.

This was the same Silvia who told her friend Mrs. Connell that LHO had spoken to Cuban exile groups in Dallas and had made a favorable impression.

The same Silvia who told Mrs. Connell that a friend of hers, a Cuban from New Orleans, had warned the Cubans in Dallas to beware of LHO, since he was mostly likely a double agent.

Silvia told Mrs. Connell that she personally found Oswald "brilliant" and "clever" and that he had captivated audiences.

The same Silvia who came to Mrs. Connell in Dallas because she needed severe psychiatric help. The shrink, Dr. Einspruch, told Mrs. Connell that poor Silvia's case was dire, and that she might need up to two years to resolve her issues.

Poor Silvia suffered from "Grand Hysteria" -- in which patients make things up in order to seem more important to others.

Mrs. Connell stated that Poor Silvia had lied to her so many times before, she had completely lost faith in whatever she said.

Silvia was in the habit of "fainting" for up to an hour, but would "wake up" if she heard something unpleasant.

Another friend, Marcela Insua, said that Silvia was a xxxx who would make up tales to seem important. She believed Silvia was a very sick woman.

Jorge Rodriguez, first President of JURE, stated that Silvia asked him to be Secretary of Propaganda, but he felt she was unstable.

Now, Silvia herself told the FBI that she didn't feel that this alleged meeting at her house was important. The information, in her opinion, was too "meager" and that even though she "thought" her visitor was Oswald, she wasn't sure.

Sounds to me like she opened her mouth to make herself important and then kinda sorta regretted it.

[Larry Hancock]

Mark, the only problem there is that there are a number of reasons not to believe Mrs. Connell about pretty much anything related to Sylvia or their mutual friend the priest....out of curiosity, have you read

Connell's book?

[Guest Mark Valenti]

Larry I have not, but I will try to find it. There seem to be many more similar testimonies re: Silvia, no?

[Larry Hancock]

Mark, indeed, as usual there are indeed a number of conflicting testimonies about Odio - after all this is JFK research, how could it be otherwise...grin. However her remarks were very likely colored by jealousy and

that certainly comes through in her book and elsewhere. What I have to say about the Odio incident is in SWHT, no need to repeat it here. I can see a scenario where Oswald was there, one where he was not and a third

in which he was there in a different context than we see in her statements - and one which would have worried here much more than a simple visit. And I find nothing to resolve the three states - its sort of like quantum physics,

once you touch the Odio incident you likely "fix" it in the state you want to see. Basically I see it as an open mystery and as much of a diversion in regard to the events of Nov. 22 as anything else. After all, its not like we don't

have other sources placing Oswald in company with mysterious Cubans, or that we have evidence Oswald was being "maneuvered" by mysterious Cubans, etc. Personally I consider the McKewon incident to be much more

significant and more likely... However, there are are points such as Odio's letter to her father, which did describe the visit, that corroborate the incident occurred and that here visitors were playing some sort of game with her.

There are also some personal things going on with her at that point in time that have to be factored into her reactions during that period of time. This post is too long already, if you want more on that drop me an email or

PM.

-- Larry

[Robert Howard]

Larry, I couldn't agree more about Ms. Connell. There are a few things that should be pointed out. The "Odio incident" will be argued ad infinitum, because there is simply not enough definitive information to come to a consensus about so many aspects to the story. I will throw this out. The book Hitlist Richard Belzer has 50 persons cited, Silvia Odio is not one of them, nor am I suggesting she should be. Yet, according to one document or book interview, her mother worked for the National Security Agency, no-one to my knowledge has ever explored that area, and the Lopez Report states that when the interviews with various Cuban personages were being sought out for interviews, it had been discovered that Silvia Odio had died on May 24, 1972 in New York, she was found dead in her bathtub of an apparent suicide. I always felt her relationship and public comments with the Frank Sturgis debacle, [he was either allegedly or really threatening her] was an excellent example of cannon fodder, I agree with opinions expressed that Steven Witt was not the umbrella man, and agree that he was doing things with that umbrella consistent with, at the very least grounds for being detained for questioning, and possibly more. In a way the Umbrella Man issue is a microcosm of the assassination itself, with the glaring fact that it is in the eyes and ears of the readers and researchers to determine the credibility of who has spoken [all the witnesses] regarding the crime, the crime scene and in other aspects of the history of November 22, 1963

[Larry Hancock]

Robert, are you possibly confusing Marita Lorenz a bit with Odio here? I don't know of any links between Odio and Sturgis and Odio's mother was certainly not NSA, Fonzi described interviewing her family after they made it out of Cuba and her Dad was just scrapping by. Also, never heard of Odio committing suicide, last I heard she had retired to Florida and that was after Fonzi had spent so much time with her and the HSCA. Could you be thinking of Lorenz on that?

[Guest Mark Valenti]

Larry, I couldn't agree more about Ms. Connell. There are a few things that should be pointed out. The "Odio incident" will be argued ad infinitum, because there is simply not enough definitive information to come to a consensus about so many aspects to the story.

Robert, this is why I object to anyone using the Odio incident to bolster a particular theory. David Josephs uses these unsettled and highly questionable items as building blocks, and tries to pass them off as historical realities. It's difficult enough to make sense of this case without that kind of shoddiness.

[Robert Howard]

Larry, is correct regarding my confusion between Odio and Lorenz. The Lopez Report states [page 277-78] In 1972 Ms Odio married a Communist painter named Rudolfo Sanabria Gonzalez, and moved to Rio Neba-16, Apartment 40. On May 24, 1972, Ms Odio was found dead in her bathtub. The official presiding at her autopsy concluded that she poisoned herself. Apologies for the confusion.

Here is the URL

http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/lopezrpt/pdf/LopezRpt_8_Appendices.pdf

Think I am losing it. This Odio was Silvia's sister, not Silvia. I am having some problems obviously. Sorry

Edited April 28, 2015 by Robert Howard

[B. A. Copeland]

So then if the Odio scenario is questionable at best and there seems to be evidence that the WC wanted to avoid this story, it cannot be used in any way to even show that LHO was possibly being framed? Is it possible (or worth) to at least consider the earliest version of the story as told by Odio? I guess Fonzi wasn't really touching on anything signficant after all if this the story is to be carefully avoided to show LHO was being set up...

Edited April 28, 2015 by B. A. Copeland