Jon G. Tidd Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Mark Valenti, My only point was to acknowledge that the movie wasn't shown in the U.S. in the immediate aftermath of the JFK assassination. I saw it on TV in my fraternity on B-W TV in 1965 or 1966. While drinking a fraternity brother's beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mark Valenti Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Mark Valenti, My only point was to acknowledge that the movie wasn't shown in the U.S. in the immediate aftermath of the JFK assassination. I saw it on TV in my fraternity on B-W TV in 1965 or 1966. While drinking a fraternity brother's beer. You may be referring to Suddenly, which was in fact pulled from some distribution following JFK's death. Manchurian Candidate was not pulled for any JFK-related reasons, as it had just completed a one-year theatrical run and was petering out at the box office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon G. Tidd Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Mark Valenti, It's not a big deal to me. "Manchurian Candidate" was an early 1960's film about the assassination of a U.S. presidential candidate. "Suddenly" was a 1950's film about the assassination of a U.S. president. "Manchurian Candidate" was held back for a year or two following the JFK assassination. Both films starred Frank Sinatra. He was the main perp in "Suddenly", a savior in "Manchurian Candidate." Again, not a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mark Valenti Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Mark Valenti, It's not a big deal to me. "Manchurian Candidate" was an early 1960's film about the assassination of a U.S. presidential candidate. "Suddenly" was a 1950's film about the assassination of a U.S. president. "Manchurian Candidate" was held back for a year or two following the JFK assassination. Both films starred Frank Sinatra. He was the main perp in "Suddenly", a savior in "Manchurian Candidate." Again, not a big deal. It's a big deal to be accurate. You imply that Manchurian Candidate was "held back for a year or two" because of the JFK assassination. That isn't true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon G. Tidd Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Mark Valenti, Please explain. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mark Valenti Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Jon Tidd - explain what you mean by saying that Manchurian Candidate was "held back" for a year or two following JFK's assassination. Are you suggesting the film was held back *because* of the JFK assassination? I believe you are, otherwise why bring it up in the context of your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon G. Tidd Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Mark Valenti, I concede you are correct. It's not a big deal to me. Really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Greg are you channeling Tom Scully (the wedding list guy)? I don't see any weddings listed, Len. Are you claiming that the people who started and funded Youth House and the immigrant housing of the Rosenbergs having close ties to the intelligence community with one also having a holiday home on the same VERY exclusive small island as the Paines, is necessarily meaningless and on a par with "the cousin of the miikman to the Crown family knowing the neighbor of Badgeman" type posts of Toms? With all due respect Greg, I'd have to say yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 (edited) Greg are you channeling Tom Scully (the wedding list guy)? I don't see any weddings listed, Len. Are you claiming that the people who started and funded Youth House and the immigrant housing of the Rosenbergs having close ties to the intelligence community with one also having a holiday home on the same VERY exclusive small island as the Paines, is necessarily meaningless and on a par with "the cousin of the miikman to the Crown family knowing the neighbor of Badgeman" type posts of Toms? It may be a meaningful fact in regard to the murder of JFK -- or maybe not. Your arrogant certainty that it is reflects True Belief, not logic. Edited April 4, 2015 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I don't see how anyone can assume that the "executors" of the plot to kill JFK were the same as the "executors" of the plot/s to sheep-dip and kill Oswald. I find it makes more sense to view these operations as compartmentalized. There may have been any number of operations involved in "sheep-dipping" Oswald. Three different agencies may have run operations involving Oswald -- ONI, CIA, FBI. Was setting Oswald up with housing and employment thru Ruth Forbes Paine the same operation as connecting "Oswald" to alleged KGB assassin-master Valeriy Kostikov in Mexico City? Let's game this out a bit: Oswald was sheep-dipped as a Red Assassin, a frame which required him to be murdered within an hour of JFK (dead men don't cry patsy). Had this operation succeeded Ruth Forbes Paine would go down in history as the woman who harbored the Communist Agent of Fidel & the KGB. Is that a fate she'd sign up for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 (edited) POSTED IN FAIR USE The American Chronicle === Sunday, September 15, 2013 Why the CIA Assigned Ruth Paine to the Oswalds Ruth (b. 1932) and Michael Paine (b. 1928) were a CIA couple assigned to babysit another CIA agent Lee Oswald and family while they resided in Dallas. We believe that the primary reason for the association was James Angleton’s plan to murder Oswald. When Oswald returned from the USSR in 1962 under eyebrow raising circumstances with a Soviet wife, James Angleton was all beside himself, fearing that Oswald had been compromised or was a double agent. To limit his perceived losses, he spawned an elaborate plan to murder Oswald. Shortly after returning to the US, CIA operative George DeMohrenschildt introduced Oswald to Michael and Ruth Paine at a party given by an employee of the Magnolia Oil Company, Volkmar Schmidt. Ruth Paine, allegedly a Quaker, claimed that she wanted to help the beleaguered young couple establish themselves in Dallas, in return for which Oswald’s wife, Marina, would give Russian language lessons to Ruth, who claimed that she wanted to learn the language. The main problem with her story is that Ruth already knew Russian for she was teaching it at a school in Dallas. Furthermore, we know that she had family connections to the CIA, including associations with Allan Dulles, director of the CIA until 1961 when Kennedy fired him for his bungled Bay of Pigs disaster. The salient point of interest is that Paine knew Russian and would be the ideal babysitter for Oswald as she could monitor Lee’s and Marina’s conversations when staying at her house – something which she insisted that Marina do from the beginning. It is well known that the CIA sent Ruth Paine to many foreign and domestic locations to gather intelligence. So her work with the Oswalds was fully consistent with her job as spy. Paine was also used to plant false evidence on Oswald, including the famous backyard photos of him holding a rifle. We also speculated with good reason elsewhere that Paine was the one who used the fake identity of Alek Hidell to order a rifle from Klein mail order, an identity which was subsequently planted on Oswald after his arrest. In addition to these connections, Dallas Police Officer Roger Craig noted in early 1968, when he finally saw his testimony to the Warren Commission, that the Commission altered his statements concerning Ruth Paine – a clear indication that she was far more important than most anyone knew. Craig had observed Oswald enter a light green Nash Rambler which, he stated to the Warren Commission and in his memoirs, did not have a license plate matching Texas plate colors. According to Craig “The driver of the station wagon was a husky looking Latin, with dark wavy hair, wearing a tan wind breaker type jacket” who had been arrested immediately after the assassination but just as quickly released because he did not speak English! But the point about the Rambler is extremely important because it appears in 2 more instances of the investigation. Edgar Eugene Bradley, whom Craig said claimed to be a Secret Service agent, stopped him for information about the Rambler into which Oswald entered – in fact he was obsessed with the details about it. The reason for his interest in the Rambler was undoubtedly because Ruth Paine owned such a vehicle of the same color, a fact which police officer Buddy Walthers confirmed when he and “Harry Weatherford, and we met Officer Adamcik that works for the city [irving] and Officer Rose and another one of their officers…” went to Ruth Paine’s home in Irving, Texas where they saw a similar vehicle. Our speculation is that it was the same one. Paine told the Walthers that she was expecting them, yet the news of Oswald’s arrest had not been made public and Marina did not seem to know that he had been arrested. Thus, Paine let slip very incriminating evidence that she knew Oswald was being framed as the patsy. If the vehicle which the “husky Latin” was driving was indeed Paine’s vehicle, he had completed his errand by the time police arrived at the Paine’s. We believe that his assigned task was to take Oswald to the Texas Theater where he was caged like a trapped rat. The man claiming to be a Secret Service agent – Bradley – was in reality a right winged preacher from North Hollywood and closely associated with Carl McIntire, both of whom we believe were involved in the assassination conspiracy. Later in life when Paine was on assignment in Nicaragua during the 1990s, she very briefly and opaquely opened up to a friend concerning the murder and her part in it: There was, however, one occasion when the friend tried to bring up the assassination when Ruth began to say how sad she was that her daughter (then about 40) was estranged from her. Ruth said that her daughter told her that she refused to talk to her until “she came to grips with the evil that she had been associated with.” The friend said that Ruth had tears in her eyes when she said this and was certain that this was a veiled reference to the Kennedy assassination. Of course we have no sympathy for Paine who is indeed an evil woman who framed an innocent man and assisted the assassins in their goals of murdering a president. But in 1963, Paine’s largest value to the CIA was her knowledge of Russian which made her the perfect babysitter for the Oswalds. Her avid interest in an ostensibly non-descript, returning defector, can only mean that she was eye ball deep in the CIA, and assisting Angleton in the murder of Oswald. ReferenceSteve Jones, New Evidence Regarding Ruth and Michael Paine, Kennedy Assassination Chronicles, Winter 1998Bill Kelly, Ruth Paine's Garage, JFKCountercoup, December 9, 2009Various, Ruth Paine's Station Wagon, Education Forum thread, started April 28, 2006Roger Craig, When They Kill a President, 1971, republished electronically ratical.orgCopyright 2013 Tony Bonn. All rights reserved. ################################################# ################################################# see also https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?4070-Antioch-College-Connections-to-the-CIA-Ruth-Paine-amp-John-Kennedy-Murder Edited April 6, 2015 by Steven Gaal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon G. Tidd Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Cliff, It's conventional wisdom here and elsewhere that Marina's husband was "sheep dipped". What facts do you present that Marina's husband was so dipped? And for what purpose? And by whom? And willingly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 (edited) Jon, There was the "Soviet defector" reputation Oswald gained; the FPCC leafleting and radio show in New Orleans; the alleged KGB-Oswald meet in Mexi. For all I know there could have been three different operations run by three different intel agencies. Edited April 6, 2015 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 It sure is. People dump on books and research they know zero about all the time - especially when they fear it will make them and their own "efforts" irrelevant. Something about the Pot calling the kettle black comes to mind here.... Let us know when you get to the part where the boy playing Harvey Oswald from Youth House with Hungarian ancestry is used by all those connections you found to help the CIA create an untraceable spy in the name of Lee Oswald. The difference, David is that I have only published one of a proposed 3 or 4 volumes - so I can say with confidence that Cliff is most definitely talking about things of which he has no knowledge. You are trying to compare that with my demolition of those parts of Armstrong's book which are plastered all over the web. See the difference? I directly respond to research that exists on the web. Cliff is trying to knock research that he hasn't seen and knows nothing about. You guys do presentations on Armstrong's book without having read it. So it must be okay not to read it, so long as you praise it. I do agree with Cliff on one thing - the Assassination Research Community is a hoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 Greg are you channeling Tom Scully (the wedding list guy)? I don't see any weddings listed, Len. Are you claiming that the people who started and funded Youth House and the immigrant housing of the Rosenbergs having close ties to the intelligence community with one also having a holiday home on the same VERY exclusive small island as the Paines, is necessarily meaningless and on a par with "the cousin of the miikman to the Crown family knowing the neighbor of Badgeman" type posts of Toms? With all due respect Greg, I'd have to say yes. Len, you and I are quite a bit alike. I call all flowers chrysanthemums because I don't know one flower from another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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