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A Way to Tell if the Shots Came From Behind or the Side Front


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The Zapruder film is doctored to make us believe the shots only came from behind. Yes, there were back shots hitting Connally and President Kennedy. The Z film has a dark color mark on the back of Kennedy's head; a disguise. They were too stupid, desperate or lazy to use a brown color. But when he's hit in the head from the front and side, Jackie climbs onto the trunk to retrieve a bone. She was not trying to escape -- in a pink suit and crawling onto the trunk where she is in a shooter's view. That trunk in the Z film is perfectly clean with a great reflection of Jackie.

Now if Kennedy was shot from the front and side, the trunk of the car would have blood and gore all over it. Maybe this never occurred to anyone. But Clint Hill is still alive. When he jumped on the back of the car, was it bloody or shiny clean? I understand there's a book out by him about his protecting Jackie. I wonder if he describes the blood, etc.

I think this is one way to determine if the Zapruder film was faked or not. We know it's faked, but it would be a great way to "see" from where he was shot. I am going to look up this issue; it occurred to me this morning. Please give opinions or more info about the trunk.

Kathy C

Edited by Kathleen Collins
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Great point KC...

I always wondered why none of the images of the limo show this and then this: I've never seen an image that corroborates this.

Mr. SPECTER - What was the condition with respect to cleanliness?
Mr. FRAZIER - There were blood and particles of flesh scattered all over the hood, the windshield, in the front seat and all over the rear floor rugs, the jump seats, and over the rear seat, and down both sides of the side rails or tops of the doors of the car.

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I read the first of Clint Hill's books. I don't recall a statement about blood on the trunk. I wish I could remember his precise description of whether Jackie was reaching for brain matter on the trunk lid.

This was in the Daily Mail, David. Might be of interest to you.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2236766/Clint-Hill-Jackie-Kennedys-bodyguard-reveals-decades-guilt-49th-anniversary-JFKs-assassination.html

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As documented in Chapter 5b of my website, Clint Hill repeatedly described blood and gore on the back of the limo. Bobby Hargis, riding to the left and behind of Mrs. Kennedy, similarly described a cloud of blood and brain that came his way after the head shot. The question, however, is not where this blood and brain landed, but where it came from. It's entirely possible a cloud of mist exploded upwards from the right side of Kennedy's head and then rained down upon the back of the limo.

P.S. If you think this is silly, here's a little experiment. Next time you're driving in your car, take a swig from a Big Gulp, stick your head out your window, and then try to spit some beverage straight up in the air. Then see where it lands. LOL

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As documented in Chapter 5b of my website, Clint Hill repeatedly described blood and gore on the back of the limo. Bobby Hargis, riding to the left and behind of Mrs. Kennedy, similarly described a cloud of blood and brain that came his way after the head shot. The question, however, is not where this blood and brain landed, but where it came from. It's entirely possible a cloud of mist exploded upwards from the right side of Kennedy's head and then rained down upon the back of the limo.

P.S. If you think this is silly, here's a little experiment. Next time you're driving in your car, take a swig from a Big Gulp, stick your head out your window, and then try to spit some beverage straight up in the air. Then see where it lands. LOL

On the windshield of the police car that's been following me? No thanks.

Edited by Thomas Graves
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As documented in Chapter 5b of my website, Clint Hill repeatedly described blood and gore on the back of the limo. Bobby Hargis, riding to the left and behind of Mrs. Kennedy, similarly described a cloud of blood and brain that came his way after the head shot. The question, however, is not where this blood and brain landed, but where it came from. It's entirely possible a cloud of mist exploded upwards from the right side of Kennedy's head and then rained down upon the back of the limo.

P.S. If you think this is silly, here's a little experiment. Next time you're driving in your car, take a swig from a Big Gulp, stick your head out your window, and then try to spit some beverage straight up in the air. Then see where it lands. LOL

I don't usually drive at 10 to 12 mph, and come to almost a complete stop before taking a swig from a Big Gulp.

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The question is whether blood and brain matter landed on the trunk. If so, the extant Z-film. which shows a shiny trunk, is fake.

I just remembered. Isn't there a discrepancy regarding the length of the trunk? Between the Nix film and the

Zapruder film. One trunk is longer than the other one.

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Has anyone seen the other film? I heard accounts where some say they've seen the "other" film, and that's it's very gory, but I've not heard a detailed description of what this other film exactly shows. ?

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The "other" film shows the turn onto Elm St., where a "firecracker" went off. In the Hughes film they left a frame in of Kennedy reacting to something painful. His face changes as something hit him. He brings his hand back into the car. Kennedy tries again to smile and wave and is hit in the throat from a shot coming from the front. His elbows fly up. The Stemmons Freeway sign is much smaller and doesn't hide what happened. He is hit from behind and the back of his head is blown away. Then the 2 big ones: SA Greer stops momentarily and turns to see Kennedy and sees him shot twice in the head from the right front. Greer takes off, saying later that he didn't want to drive Kennedy into an ambush. Ha, Ha. SA Clint Hill gets atop the vehicle and hits Jackie to get her to go back into the car. They drive off. So you see the turn, the sign is smaller, you see Greer stop the car and Clint Hill slapping Jackie. And it was very gruesome.

I think Eugene Brading shot from behind from the Dal-Tex building, where he was discovered, brought in and let go.

Kathy C

Edited by Kathleen Collins
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Roger, if you do a Google search their recollections can be found. I even think Dellarosa did a video describing it. I printed/saved the written description as posted on this forum if memory serves.

One thing struck me was the UP movement of JFK described. Made me think of the sewer drain. I always felt the zooming in of the Z film at that point might have hidden the reflection of the shot on the side of the limo. The angle seems right.

DJ

Edited by David Josephs
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Here's a couple of interviews of people who claimed to have seen the 'other' Z-film posted at YouTube:

Rich Dellarosa: The Other Zapruder Film - Black Op Radio 2-26-09:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRhcQI4tFTI

Jim Marrs interviews William Reymond:

Researchers Greg Burnham & Pamela Brown have also stated online many times that they both

saw the 'other' film on separate occasions. Each has a website that may offer additional info & both are EF

members.

Where did the 'other' film originate? Following the release of Doug Horne's alleged Hawkeyeworks

alteration of the Z-original analysis, some believe the 'other Z-film' is one of the 3 original Zapruder

copies made in Dallas the afternoon of Nov 22, 1963 that went to the FBI, SS & Life magazine that

were not 'swapped out' with 3 alleged altered Hawkeyeworks copies & floated out to be viewed by an

elite small number of people years ago.

The late researcher Jack White published several illustrations online supporting his belief a photographer

was inside the shelter (cupola) behind Zapruder & Sitzman. Jack believed he spotted a tripod

inside the shelter.

A video analyst at YouTube believes photographers and/or gunmen were positioned on top of the North

pergola that were 'blacked out' in the Bronson & Bell films:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRwWAAvMvN8

That same analyst also believes a 'Zapruder like' film could have been created from the railroad yards

signal tower or the Pullman train cars parked in the rail yards that are visible in a multitude of films & photos

taken during & after the shooting.

In the late 1980's TV specials 'The Men Who Killed Kennedy', a former soldier (Gordon Arnold) claimed to have filmed

the assassination at the Black Dog Man location,only to lose his film to two police officers who assaulted him, plus

former Green Beret Lt. Col Dan Marvin, who claimed he was offered a contract to kill William Pitzer, the Bethesda

Navy officer that allegedly had filmed JFK's autopsy, claimed to have viewed several films of the assassination shown to him during the 'kill contract' offer. These allegations were presented in separate episodes. Some believe each man was describing the 'other' film.

If I am not mistaken, WCD 298 (or a similar FBI model photo) depicts Zapruder not on his 'pedestal' but about where

Black Dog Man was positioned in the Willis & Betzner photos. I should have this illustration in my library & will post a

copy of it for those who haven't seen it or noticed it (if necessary).

Some believe the initial FBI/SS/Dallas DPD/Dallas MSM investigators were working with the 'other' Z-film when initial

shooting re-enactments were conducted, filmed & surveyed in Dealey Plaza & this led to Hoover placing the 3rd shot

at the north pergola sidewalk steps (3rd string of the WCD 298 3D model); others believe Hoover was simply lying.

Ironically, a 'mystery film' also pops up in another famous ambush: Bonnie & Clyde. Posse leader & ex-Texas Ranger

Frank Hamer allegedly hired a professional photographer to film the ambush of B&C in order to cash in on public interest

post-ambush, but decided against releasing the film, fearing a public backlash & lawsuits from B&C's relatives. The alleged

film never surfaced while Hamer was alive or after he passed away.

BM

Edited by Brad Milch
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The "other" film shows the turn onto Elm St., where a "firecracker" went off. In the Hughes film they left a frame in of Kennedy reacting to something painful. His face changes as something hit him. He brings his hand back into the car. Kennedy tries again to smile and wave and is hit in the throat from a shot coming from the front. His elbows fly up. The Stemmons Freeway sign is much smaller and doesn't hide what happened. He is hit from behind and the back of his head is blown away. Then the 2 big ones: SA Greer stops momentarily and turns to see Kennedy and sees him shot twice in the head from the right front. Then the 2 big ones. Greer takes off, saying later that he didn't want to drive Kennedy into an ambush. Ha, Ha. SA Clint Hill gets atop the vehicle and hits Jackie to get her to go back into the car. They drive off. So you see the turn, the sign is smaller, you see Greer stop the car and Clint Hill slapping Jackie. And it was very gruesome.

I think Eugene Brading shot from behind from the Dal-Tex building, where he was discovered, brought in and let go.

Kathy C

(Bolds mine.)

I will reserve commenting on most of this, because I just don't want to go there, but I have to ask, (and forgive me if this is written elsewhere or common knowledge), you say Clint Hill slapped Jackie? What? Where did this come from? Why would he do that? I would like to see a credible source for this. This is one of the crummiest things I've seen written. Her husband has just been shot in the head, and Clint runs to the limo, climbs up on the trunk, and slaps her? Are you kidding me?

A lot of the JFK discussions are really getting "out there", IMO.

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