Altgens Photo

[Vanessa Loney]

Dear Altgens gents who are on the PM thread - here is a place for you to discuss the Altgens photo, please.

[Thomas Graves]

Dear Altgens gents who are on the PM thread - here is a place for you to discuss the Altgens photo, please.

OK.

Thanks, Vanessa.

I'll try to move my last post from the Oswald Leaving the TSBD? thread to this one.

--Tommy

Working on something... The image above is far from correct...

Does this make a bit more sense - or ??

That's exactly it. David. Makes sense once it is coloured properly..

Which side of the central railing was Lovelady on?

Is he holding onto something with his left hand?

I always thought Lovelady was standing just to the left of the center railing.

If he's holding onto something with his left hand in Altgens 6, he must be holding onto the railing on the left wall with it, which seems kind of awkward.

--Tommy sun

Great question Tommy...

I thought that too yet he is not in the middle in Hughes... but later, much later... I think he was just behind the black man there... and moves over by Couch/Darnell which is after Altgens6

That's him at the top right in a Hughes frame blowup... or that's PM

David,

Nice collage.

Thanks.

--Tommy

Edited April 20, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Vanessa Loney]

Apologies Tommy. I didn't realize you were one of the miscreants.

[Thomas Graves]

Apologies Tommy. I didn't realize you were one of the miscreants.

No problem, Vanessa.

I was born that way.

Even the circus didn't want me.

BTW, What do you think of David Josephs' nice collage showing Lovelady in Robert Hughes, Weigman, and Altgens 6?

It proves once and for all that Door Man was Billy Lovelady, IMHO.

--Tommy

Edited April 20, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Vanessa Loney]

Apologies again Tommy but I can't make head nor tail of that collage. Could you explain it to me?

But yes, I totally agree that Doorman is Lovelady.

[Ray Mitcham]

Can we discuss Prayerman here?

[Thomas Graves]

Apologies again Tommy but I can't make head nor tail of that collage. Could you explain it to me?

But yes, I totally agree that Doorman is Lovelady.

Vanessa,

The bottom image is from Weigman. You do see both Prayerman and Lovelady in it, don't you? Lovelady is standing on the far right of the image near the center hand railing and you can see his white t-shirt under his long sleeved shirt.

The blurry image on the right is a frame from the Robert Hughes film and establishes once and for all that Lovelady was wearing his long sleeved, mostly red, "plaid" shirt that day, not his vertically-striped red-and-white shirt.

--Tommy

Edited April 20, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Robert Prudhomme]

Can we discuss Prayerman here?

I'll bet you were a troublemaker when you were a school boy, too.

[Robert Prudhomme]

Two misconceptions about the Altgens 6 photo that are a result of compression from a telephoto lens.

1. Lovelady was standing on the far left side of the TSBD steps in the Altgens photo and, by the time Wiegman films him, he has migrated to the right side of the steps.

2. Lovelady's left arm can be seen in the front of the black man's chest.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme

[Thomas Graves]

Two misconceptions about the Altgens 6 photo that are a result of compression from a telephoto lens.

1. Lovelady was standing on the far left side of the TSBD steps in the Altgens photo and, by the time Wiegman films him, he has migrated to the right side of the steps.

2. Lovelady's left arm can be seen in the front of the black man's chest.

Robert,

So Lovelady / Doorman was standing near the center hand railing all along! Makes sense to me.

What I don't understand is how Lovelady's "arm" gets in front of the man's chest.

But I always did think Lovelady's arm (or his shirt sleeve) was way too long, like it's not his or maybe not all of it is his.

--Tommy

Edited April 20, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Ian Lloyd]

Didn't the WC or HSCA photographic panel determine that what looks like Lovelady's arm was actually the black man's (Roy Lewis?) arm as he was waving?

Edited April 20, 2015 by Ian Lloyd

[Richard Hocking]

Didn't the WC or HSCA photographic panel determine that what looks like Lovelady's arm was actually the black man's (Roy Lewis?) arm as he was waving?

Very Close Ian.

According to Richard Sprague, he obtained an 11 x 17 blowup made from the original Altgens.

Sprague claims the raised arm in front of Lovelady is that of a black man, his body not visible that is in front of Roy Lewis.

If you look closely you can make out the faint outline of a hand at the top of the arm.

Edit:

Link

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/B%20Disk/Brunson%20Beverly/Item%2005.pdf

Edited April 20, 2015 by Richard Hocking

[Ian Lloyd]

Thanks Richard, I was working from memory then.

[Vanessa Loney]

Cheeky, Ray.

[Robin Haines]

My theory about the mysterious "Doorway Man" in the Altgens photograph is that he is one of their Oswald impostors. They had him stand right in the doorway of the book depository so people would think they were seeing Oswald standing there at the time when the assassination was going down.

For all we know, they might have had another one of their Oswald impostors in the 1st floor lunch room as well.

This way people would think they were seeing Oswald so they wouldn't suspect Oswald of being up at the 6th floor window trying to kill JFK.

In other words, they used their Oswald look-a-likes to serve as decoys.

It is not just a co-incidence that this man was standing in the doorway who looked enough like Oswald to pass for him. However, I don't believe it was the real Oswald.