Why is the JFK assassination research community so easy on Nixon?

[Paul Brancato]

Thanks for posting these Cliff. I'll confess I didn't respond well to electric Dylan at the time. Maggie's farm works great though. I went to see him somewhere out of NYC probably summer 1965 and like most of the audience reacted negatively to the new sound. I think my favorite Dylan moment was 1991 singing Masters of War at the Grammies. It took me a while to even recognize the song, one of my all time favorite Dylan numbers. I agree with you though - the best of rock and roll has always been radical. But most of what the country listens to is conservative - crap I might add.

Love the Pussy Riot video.

[Paul Brancato]

Thanks for posting these Cliff. I'll confess I didn't respond well to electric Dylan at the time. Maggie's farm works great though. I went to see him somewhere out of NYC probably summer 1965 and like most of the audience reacted negatively to the new sound. I think my favorite Dylan moment was 1991 singing Masters of War at the Grammies. It took me a while to even recognize the song, one of my all time favorite Dylan numbers. I agree with you though - the best of rock and roll has always been radical. But most of what the country listens to is conservative - crap I might add.

Love the Pussy Riot video.

Seems like you've read enough to get the gist. The author isn't suggesting that radical sub culture was created by CIA. LSD was introduced via CIA, but rapidly took on a life of its own. However, something derailed us in the late 60's. I think our 'rulers' we're very concerned about the direction the various movements were taking, and I think they took many measures to subvert them, including assassinations, false prophets, agent provocateurs, bad acid, media control, etc. Perhaps in Laurel canyon culture we see beneath the surface a bit.

For me Nixon fits in here because one of the seminal events destroying the anti war movement happened on his watch - the shootings at Kent State. In 1968 the torch was passed by blood from LBJ to RMN, and within a few years everything changed.

[Jon G. Tidd]

Paul Brancato,

You write:

" I think our 'rulers' we're very concerned about the direction the various movements were taking, and I think they took many measures to subvert them, including assassinations, false prophets, agent provocateurs, bad acid, media control, etc."

I agree that the U.S. Government used agent provocateurs to disrupt protests. I've wondered about the bad acid. Bad acid in 1969 is like a hack today. Hard to know who's responsible in some cases. As for media control, that goes to the heart of the matter, because of the concentration of ownership. As for the assassinations, at the time, I thought they were connected. I still do, but in a different way.

[Thomas Graves]

Paul,

Yes, I'm a huge fan of Dave McGowan, who wrote Weird Scenes Inside the Canyon. Much of the book, along with a lot of other extremely controversial "extremist" stuff, can be found on his web site http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/ I'm sure many here will think him way too "far out" for public consumption.

I believe you have read my book (and I thank you for that). For others who may be interested, my thoughts on these subjects are detailed there far more clearly than I can do on a forum. http://www.amazon.com/Hidden-History-Conspiracies-Cover-Ups-American/dp/1629144843

As rocknroll history McGowan's work is bunk.

The rest of his material about intel operations in Laurel Canyon may be spot on, but the music stuff is nonsense.

Jim Morrison and Arthur Lee are now regarded more as proto-punk than hippie-psychedelic.

Frank Zappa's psychedelia was fueled by coffee, not LSD.

The Byrds, Mamas & Papas, the Monkees, Buffalo Springfield, Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young, Scott MacKenzie...they play this stuff on elevators!

In terms of acid rock there's San Francisco and there's Texas --13th Floor Elevators out of Austin and the Moving Sidewalks out of Houston.

McGowan:

“Perhaps Neil Young said it best when he told an interviewer that he couldn’t really say why he headed out to LA circa 1966; he and others “were just going like Lemmings.”

Because that's where the major record labels were. Duh...

For what it's worth, I heard "For What It's Worth" (You know -- Something's happening here. What it is ain't exactly clear ?) in the lobby of the Hotel Del Charro other night.

In my dreams, in my dreams.

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2011/jan/05/cover-oil-politics-la-jolla/#

--Tommy

bumped

[Paul Trejo]

This thread has wandered far afield of its title.

--Paul Trejo

Edited May 12, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Mark Knight]

"Tin Soldiers and Nixon coming...."

How's THAT for putting us back on track?

And I won't even go into a long post about how Mr. Trejo seems to worship "Tricky Dick." I'll simply mention that it was glaringly obvious.

[Paul Trejo]

Richard Nixon didn't get the USA into the Vietnam War. Richard Nixon did get the USA out of the Vietnam War.

Just because people hate Nixon for getting the USA out of Vietnam so *slowly*, they feel they have the right to blame Nixon for the JFK murder.

It's part of the so-called "Deep Politics", which I call the "Deep Sneaker" theory of the JFK murder. It means you don't have to bother with details, with little things like evidence, you can just vent your political rage and rant away about your most hated politician of the mid-20th century.

There's nothing deep about it. It just wastes time. I'm done with this thread.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Brian Schmidt]

Richard Nixon didn't get the USA into the Vietnam War. Richard Nixon did get the USA out of the Vietnam War.

Just because people hate Nixon for getting the USA out of Vietnam so *slowly*, they feel they have the right to blame Nixon for the JFK murder.

It's part of the so-called "Deep Politics", which I call the "Deep Sneaker" theory of the JFK murder. It means you don't have to bother with details, with little things like evidence, you can just vent your political rage and rant away about your most hated politician of the mid-20th century.

There's nothing deep about it. It just wastes time. I'm done with this thread.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

I'm pretty sure people aren't blaming Nixon for the death of JFK because he got out of Vietnam slowly. In fact, the overwhelming number of posters on this thread think Nixon had nothing to do with the assassination. Their beliefs are fair and on firm ground, but it supports the title of the thread.

As far as your claim that there is no evidence, I think my first post laid out some level of detail, albeit circumstantial and a bit tenuous at times, but not unlike other 'evidence' people have used against others in relation to the murder.

[Mark Knight]

I'm not a Nixon worshipper...not by a long shot.

Do I think he was behind JFK's murder? Again, not by a long shot.

Was Nixon BACKED by people behind JFK's murder? Possibly.

And the fact that he and his minions prolonged the war is NOT mitigated by the fact that his administration eventually negotiated the plan to extricate America from the war...not to me, and certainly not to the men who died BECAUSE the war was prolonged.

But these were merely human lives snuffed out because the war was prolonged...so they're not important, right? At least he got us "in" with China.

[Paul Trejo]

I'm not a Nixon worshipper...not by a long shot.

Do I think he was behind JFK's murder? Again, not by a long shot.

Was Nixon BACKED by people behind JFK's murder? Possibly.

And the fact that he and his minions prolonged the war is NOT mitigated by the fact that his administration eventually negotiated the plan to extricate America from the war...not to me, and certainly not to the men who died BECAUSE the war was prolonged.

But these were merely human lives snuffed out because the war was prolonged...so they're not important, right? At least he got us "in" with China.

Well, Mark, it's very easy to forget the Cold War now that it's been gone for a quarter-century.

Nixon's great accomplishment wasn't that he got us good deals on Chinese goods and labor.

Instead, Nixon's great accomplishment was that he prevented World War Three by dividing the Communist Bloc in half.

Insofar as Nixon had to navigate through skies filled with warlike hawks in order to accomplish this, then there was clearly no other way. Perhaps one had to live through the Cold War to appreciate how delicate the situation was -- and how easily China could have stuck with the USSR.

Nixon was no saint -- but Nixon did prevent World War Three (just as JFK was also no saint, but also avoided World War Three by his handling of the Cuban Missile Crisis).

Whoever is elected President in 2016 will always have this standard -- the genius to avoid World War Three.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited May 13, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Cliff Varnell]

Instead, Nixon's great accomplishment was that he prevented World War Three by dividing the Communist Bloc in half.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/7720461/USSR-planned-nuclear-attack-on-China-in-1969.html

Maybe Nixon stopped the USSR from,nuking China, thus preventing WW3.

The Soviet Union was the one nation on earth surrounded by hostile communist countries.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Cliff Varnell

[Mark Knight]

Mr. Trejo, there's no need to talk down to me about the Cold War. I was born in 1954, and my school days were spent hearing about the "Red Menace" and "better dead than red." Every kid in my rtown knew where the designated "fallout shelters" were. I missed out on the era of Joe McCarthy hearings ever so slightly.

So PLEASE don't try to "educate" me about that era. When the JFK assassination happened, we were sent home early from school. In our small town, I recall seeing a couple of Civil Defense trucks parked on street corners, JUST IN CASE the assassination was the beginning of WWIII. THAT'S how real the Cold War was in rural America...expecting any provocation to being WWIII, but praying it didn't come to that.

By the time Nixon went to China in 1972, tensions had eased quite a bit since 1963. HAD THEY NOT, Nixon's trip would have been ill-advised, to say the very least. But then, maybe you're just going by what you've READ, and perhaps it's YOU who has some faulty recall of the era. I remember it QUITE well.

[Paul Trejo]

Mr. Trejo, there's no need to talk down to me about the Cold War. I was born in 1954, and my school days were spent hearing about the "Red Menace" and "better dead than red." Every kid in my rtown knew where the designated "fallout shelters" were. I missed out on the era of Joe McCarthy hearings ever so slightly.

So PLEASE don't try to "educate" me about that era. When the JFK assassination happened, we were sent home early from school. In our small town, I recall seeing a couple of Civil Defense trucks parked on street corners, JUST IN CASE the assassination was the beginning of WWIII. THAT'S how real the Cold War was in rural America...expecting any provocation to being WWIII, but praying it didn't come to that.

By the time Nixon went to China in 1972, tensions had eased quite a bit since 1963. HAD THEY NOT, Nixon's trip would have been ill-advised, to say the very least. But then, maybe you're just going by what you've READ, and perhaps it's YOU who has some faulty recall of the era. I remember it QUITE well.

Well, Mark, nothing personal was meant by my post. Nixon did indeed, Atlas-style, change human history for the better (from the viewpoint of the West). That was my point -- my only point.

Regards,

--Paul

Edited May 14, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Brancato]

Paul -.please - Nixon saved the world from WW 3, and Hoover saved the U.S. from civil war. You are delusional.

[Guest Mark Valenti]

Belief as symptom, I'm afraid.

Nixon and his colleagues spent decades cranking up the Soviet Boogie Man - one that had very little basis in fact.

And then when the time was right, he got on a plane and dazzled the rubes.

Prestidigitation.