Did Lee Harvey Oswald Order The Rifle? The Answer Is Yes

[Kenneth Drew]

Roger Craig stated in an interview that he looked at the rifle and, on the base of the barrel, read the following: "7.65 Mauser".

Unfortunately for Craig, Mauser did not stamp any words or numbers on the base of the 7.65 Mauser barrel. All information was on the side of the receiver. They also never stamped the calibre on the 7.65 Mauser, so there is no way he could have read "7.65" on the rifle. It's a good story but, it is full of holes.

" I recall, myself, actually seeing them looking at a rifle and apparently reading directly off of it "Mauser"."

Is "apparently" reading the word "Mauser" the same as actually reading the word "Mauser", or does it require more imagination?

"Yes, I have seen videos that show the same thing within the last 10 years that I saw over 50 years ago....."

Would you mind posting links to these videos for us?

First, no I'm not going to post a link, there are many of them and I'm sure you've seen them.

Apparently is different only in the sense that the only sound with the video was the man doing the video was telling what they were showing and saying. He said as they pointed to the writing on the rifle that it said Mauser. So, I'm quite sure that they had looked at the rifle and read what was on it and were demonstrating it for the cameraman. TV wasn't the same in 63 as it is today, they didn't carry cell phones with video and audio.

Your statement of Roger Craig "Roger Craig stated in an interview that he looked at the rifle and, on the base of the barrel, read the following: "7.65 Mauser" is your statement. I didn't say that.

Your statement: "Unfortunately for Craig, Mauser did not stamp any words or numbers on the base of the 7.65 Mauser barrel. All information was on the side of the receiver." is useless and meaningless. If I told you I looked at an automobile and saw the name Chevrolet on it and you then said that Chevrolet didn't put the name on the roof of the car would be an equivalent. I don't care where the word Mauser was written on the rifle, they pointed at 'the rifle' and said it said right there, Mauser. So it might have been on the slide bolt, trigger, trigger guard, stock, barrell or any other place and the meaning would be the same.

So find fault with my statement, not what you thinkl about what someone else said. I said 'I saw them looking at the rifle and pointing to the rifle and saying that it said Mauser. Tell me why you think they would all gather together, discuss what type of rifle it was then find a 'expert' Seymore Weitzman and all look at the rifle and point to the rifle and say, "it says right there, Mauser" Do you really think that 'all' of them couldn't read the word correctly? Why would they then all go and sign an affidavit that it was a Mauser and then only change it after they had been intimidated by the Warren Commission.

So, also, tell me what you saw happen there in the TSBD on 11/22/63? Was it, or was it not, similar to what I saw that day?

[Robert Prudhomme]

If you can find me the film, I can tell you the make and model of the rifle by looking at it. The Carcanos were very distinctive rifles.

You have to understand you do not really have much of a case there. You saw a silent film, and a narrator tells you they are ID'ing a Mauser rifle. Excuse me for not peeing my pants in excitement.

Every film I have seen of the 6th floor has clearly shown a 6.5mm Carcano M91/38 short rifle or a 7.35mm Carcano M38 short rifle. The two rifles are virtually indistinguishable.

A DPD detective is seen walking out of the TSBD with a Remington Model 8 semi-auto rifle. This is not unusual, as this rifle was a favourite of Southern law enforcement since the days of Bonnie and Clyde.

I'm not flat out saying you are wrong. I just want to see the film for myself. If it's not a Carcano in the film you speak of, it will be obvious very quickly.

[David Von Pein]

But on the afternoon /evening of 11/22/63, I was watching tv coverage of the assassination and all the turmoil. I recall, myself, actually seeing them looking at a rifle and apparently reading directly off of it "Mauser".

You saw no such TV footage, because no such film or video exists---and it never did exist.

Kenneth is suffering from the same "conflated memory" problem that a woman had in a 1967 CBS-TV interview. In that interview, CBS stopped a woman on the street and she told us that she "just happened to be home at that time [when the assassination occurred on 11/22/63]...and I saw the whole thing on television". It was from observing "the whole thing on television" that the woman also stated in the same interview that it was her belief that it would have been impossible for just one man to have murdered the President by himself, and that Oswald, according to the same woman, was "working for the CIA".

Of course, in reality, there is no news footage that shows "the whole thing" (i.e., the assassination in progress on Elm Street). So when the lady boldly claimed in 1967 that she was home and witnessed the "whole thing" on television, she is quite obviously mistaken. She has likely taken information she later heard about the CIA being a suspect in the assassination, and she has merged that theory together with her memory of being at home and watching Walter Cronkite or Frank McGee or Ron Cochran as those newsmen reported the bulletins of the shooting on 11/22/63.

That's similar to what Kenneth Drew is now doing regarding the "Mauser" topic. He saw some footage on November 22 (possibly a film of the police holding rifles and shotguns outside the Depository; there was plenty of filmed footage showing cops with guns)....or Ken saw the various reporters saying (without confirmation) that the rifle found in the TSBD was a "Mauser" or a "6.5 Mauser" or perhaps even a "7.65 Mauser"....and then (years later) Ken heard Roger Craig's bald-faced lie about actually seeing the words "7.65 Mauser" stamped on the TSBD rifle....and--voila!--the two events become merged together as one event in Ken Drew's mind.

But I have collected almost every minute of available network news footage from 11/22/63, and I can guarantee everyone reading this post that there is no footage from that day that has anyone saying they saw the words "7.65 Mauser" stamped on the rifle that was found in the Book Depository.

As for Roger Craig's tall tale.....

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.conspiracy.jfk/ifn0KxjZzn8/kHdMvTwPAZAJ

Edited May 31, 2015 by David Von Pein

[Kenneth Drew]

But on the afternoon /evening of 11/22/63, I was watching tv coverage of the assassination and all the turmoil. I recall, myself, actually seeing them looking at a rifle and apparently reading directly off of it "Mauser".

You saw no such TV footage, because no such film or video exists---and it never did exist.

Kenneth is suffering from the same "conflated memory" problem that a woman had in a 1967 CBS-TV interview. In that interview, CBS stopped a woman on the street and she told us that she "just happened to be home at that time [when the assassination occurred on 11/22/63]...and I saw the whole thing on television". It was from observing "the whole thing on television" that the woman also stated in the same interview that it was her belief that it would have been impossible for just one man to have murdered the President by himself, and that Oswald, according to the same woman, was "working for the CIA".

Of course, in reality, there is no news footage that shows "the whole thing" (i.e., the assassination in progress on Elm Street). So when the lady boldly claimed in 1967 that she was home and witnessed the "whole thing" on television, she is quite obviously mistaken. She has likely taken information she later heard about the CIA being a suspect in the assassination, and she has merged that theory together with her memory of being at home and watching Walter Cronkite or Frank McGee or Ron Cochran as those newsmen reported the bulletins of the shooting on 11/22/63.

That's similar to what Kenneth Drew is now doing regarding the "Mauser" topic. He saw some footage on November 22 (possibly a film of the police holding rifles and shotguns outside the Depository; there was plenty of filmed footage showing cops with guns)....or Ken saw the various reporters saying (without confirmation) that the rifle found in the TSBD was a "Mauser" or a "6.5 Mauser" or perhaps even a "7.65 Mauser"....and then (years later) Ken heard Roger Craig's bald-faced lie about actually seeing the words "7.65 Mauser" stamped on the TSBD rifle....and--voila!--the two events become merged together as one event in Ken Drew's mind.

But I have collected almost every minute of available network news footage from 11/22/63, and I can guarantee everyone reading this post that there is no footage from that day that has anyone saying they saw the words "7.65 Mauser" stamped on the rifle that was found in the Book Depository.

As for Roger Craig's tall tale.....

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.conspiracy.jfk/ifn0KxjZzn8/kHdMvTwPAZAJ

Lol DVP " Kenneth is suffering from the same" and you're suffering from " you don't know what the h*ll you're talking about" and you said: "and I can guarantee everyone reading this post that there is no footage from that day that has anyone saying they saw the words "7.65 Mauser" I can say that's a safe bet, because I didn't see that either. So DVP, these details you're recalling from your memory are all 100% accurate, but since I saw something you don't agree with, I must be conflating my memory. Sure, go ahead and believe that. You know the film exists, you know at least 5 officers signed affidavits that it was a Mauser. I'd be willing to bet most police officers don't make mistakes on their affidavits. In fact, I'd bet most 'signed sworn affidavits' are taken in trials as positive proof.

[Kenneth Drew]

If you can find me the film, I can tell you the make and model of the rifle by looking at it. The Carcanos were very distinctive rifles.

You have to understand you do not really have much of a case there. You saw a silent film, and a narrator tells you they are ID'ing a Mauser rifle. Excuse me for not peeing my pants in excitement.

Every film I have seen of the 6th floor has clearly shown a 6.5mm Carcano M91/38 short rifle or a 7.35mm Carcano M38 short rifle. The two rifles are virtually indistinguishable.

A DPD detective is seen walking out of the TSBD with a Remington Model 8 semi-auto rifle. This is not unusual, as this rifle was a favourite of Southern law enforcement since the days of Bonnie and Clyde.

I'm not flat out saying you are wrong. I just want to see the film for myself. If it's not a Carcano in the film you speak of, it will be obvious very quickly.

Robert, as I said, I'm not going to link you to something you've likely seen several times and just want to ignore. And I don't care what kind of rifle was found in the TSBD because none were ever fired from the 6th floor snipers nest on ll/22/63, so just what difference does it make what the conspirators planted. This is an example of the kind of crap the Nutters want the CTers to do is argue the details that DO NOT MATTER. As you well know, the rifle you claim was in the TSBD is NOT the same as the rifle in the FAKE BYP's and neither of them is the rifle alledgedly ordered by A Hidell from Kleins's. So, what difference does it make 'what kind of rifle did they find'? you said:" Excuse me for not peeing my pants in excitement." I'd sure hope you aren't so bent on thinking you've finally found something someone is right or wrong on that you are standing there holding your breath. Maybe you could be working on supplying some of those delicacies you keep promising us 'when you get time' between your plumbing jobs.

[Robert Prudhomme]

Translat

If you can find me the film, I can tell you the make and model of the rifle by looking at it. The Carcanos were very distinctive rifles.

You have to understand you do not really have much of a case there. You saw a silent film, and a narrator tells you they are ID'ing a Mauser rifle. Excuse me for not peeing my pants in excitement.

Every film I have seen of the 6th floor has clearly shown a 6.5mm Carcano M91/38 short rifle or a 7.35mm Carcano M38 short rifle. The two rifles are virtually indistinguishable.

A DPD detective is seen walking out of the TSBD with a Remington Model 8 semi-auto rifle. This is not unusual, as this rifle was a favourite of Southern law enforcement since the days of Bonnie and Clyde.

I'm not flat out saying you are wrong. I just want to see the film for myself. If it's not a Carcano in the film you speak of, it will be obvious very quickly.

Robert, as I said, I'm not going to link you to something you've likely seen several times and just want to ignore. And I don't care what kind of rifle was found in the TSBD because none were ever fired from the 6th floor snipers nest on ll/22/63, so just what difference does it make what the conspirators planted. This is an example of the kind of crap the Nutters want the CTers to do is argue the details that DO NOT MATTER. As you well know, the rifle you claim was in the TSBD is NOT the same as the rifle in the FAKE BYP's and neither of them is the rifle alledgedly ordered by A Hidell from Kleins's. So, what difference does it make 'what kind of rifle did they find'? you said:" Excuse me for not peeing my pants in excitement." I'd sure hope you aren't so bent on thinking you've finally found something someone is right or wrong on that you are standing there holding your breath. Maybe you could be working on supplying some of those delicacies you keep promising us 'when you get time' between your plumbing jobs.

Translation = Kenneth cannot find the film

[Kenneth Drew]

But on the afternoon /evening of 11/22/63, I was watching tv coverage of the assassination and all the turmoil. I recall, myself, actually seeing them looking at a rifle and apparently reading directly off of it "Mauser".

You saw no such TV footage, because no such film or video exists---and it never did exist.

Kenneth is suffering from the same "conflated memory" problem that a woman had in a 1967 CBS-TV interview. In that interview, CBS stopped a woman on the street and she told us that she "just happened to be home at that time [when the assassination occurred on 11/22/63]...and I saw the whole thing on television". It was from observing "the whole thing on television" that the woman also stated in the same interview that it was her belief that it would have been impossible for just one man to have murdered the President by himself, and that Oswald, according to the same woman, was "working for the CIA".

Of course, in reality, there is no news footage that shows "the whole thing" (i.e., the assassination in progress on Elm Street). So when the lady boldly claimed in 1967 that she was home and witnessed the "whole thing" on television, she is quite obviously mistaken. She has likely taken information she later heard about the CIA being a suspect in the assassination, and she has merged that theory together with her memory of being at home and watching Walter Cronkite or Frank McGee or Ron Cochran as those newsmen reported the bulletins of the shooting on 11/22/63.

That's similar to what Kenneth Drew is now doing regarding the "Mauser" topic. He saw some footage on November 22 (possibly a film of the police holding rifles and shotguns outside the Depository; there was plenty of filmed footage showing cops with guns)....or Ken saw the various reporters saying (without confirmation) that the rifle found in the TSBD was a "Mauser" or a "6.5 Mauser" or perhaps even a "7.65 Mauser"....and then (years later) Ken heard Roger Craig's bald-faced lie about actually seeing the words "7.65 Mauser" stamped on the TSBD rifle....and--voila!--the two events become merged together as one event in Ken Drew's mind.

But I have collected almost every minute of available network news footage from 11/22/63, and I can guarantee everyone reading this post that there is no footage from that day that has anyone saying they saw the words "7.65 Mauser" stamped on the rifle that was found in the Book Depository.

As for Roger Craig's tall tale.....

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.conspiracy.jfk/ifn0KxjZzn8/kHdMvTwPAZAJ

Lol DVP " Kenneth is suffering from the same" and you're suffering from " you don't know what the h*ll you're talking about" and you said: "and I can guarantee everyone reading this post that there is no footage from that day that has anyone saying they saw the words "7.65 Mauser" I can say that's a safe bet, because I didn't see that either. So DVP, these details you're recalling from your memory are all 100% accurate, but since I saw something you don't agree with, I must be conflating my memory. Sure, go ahead and believe that. You know the film exists, you know at least 5 officers signed affidavits that it was a Mauser. I'd be willing to bet most police officers don't make mistakes on their affidavits. In fact, I'd bet most 'signed sworn affidavits' are taken in trials as positive proof.

As for your link on Roger Craigs tall tale, all it contains is links to McAdams drivel. He's an even bigger joke than you are but I understand you know him well from your games in the Pigpen. Roger Craig never identified the rifle in any film I saw, he only pointed out that Weitman said it was a Mauser. Since every officer that was in the TSBD at that time signed an affidavit that it was a Mauser, some discredited nutter such as McAdams word otherwise is meaningless. But tell me why you want to argue about a rifle that had nothing to do with the JFK assassination anyhow, is it just to distract from the facts?

[Robert Prudhomme]

Beginning about the 5:00 mark, Roger Craig relates how he read "7.65 Mauser" on the base of the barrel.

The rifle seen lying on the floor, and outlined in red, at the 5:50 mark is the Remington Model 8 brought into the TSBD by the DPD detective.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme

[Kenneth Drew]

Translat

If you can find me the film, I can tell you the make and model of the rifle by looking at it. The Carcanos were very distinctive rifles.

You have to understand you do not really have much of a case there. You saw a silent film, and a narrator tells you they are ID'ing a Mauser rifle. Excuse me for not peeing my pants in excitement.

Every film I have seen of the 6th floor has clearly shown a 6.5mm Carcano M91/38 short rifle or a 7.35mm Carcano M38 short rifle. The two rifles are virtually indistinguishable.

A DPD detective is seen walking out of the TSBD with a Remington Model 8 semi-auto rifle. This is not unusual, as this rifle was a favourite of Southern law enforcement since the days of Bonnie and Clyde.

I'm not flat out saying you are wrong. I just want to see the film for myself. If it's not a Carcano in the film you speak of, it will be obvious very quickly.

Robert, as I said, I'm not going to link you to something you've likely seen several times and just want to ignore. And I don't care what kind of rifle was found in the TSBD because none were ever fired from the 6th floor snipers nest on ll/22/63, so just what difference does it make what the conspirators planted. This is an example of the kind of crap the Nutters want the CTers to do is argue the details that DO NOT MATTER. As you well know, the rifle you claim was in the TSBD is NOT the same as the rifle in the FAKE BYP's and neither of them is the rifle alledgedly ordered by A Hidell from Kleins's. So, what difference does it make 'what kind of rifle did they find'? you said:" Excuse me for not peeing my pants in excitement." I'd sure hope you aren't so bent on thinking you've finally found something someone is right or wrong on that you are standing there holding your breath. Maybe you could be working on supplying some of those delicacies you keep promising us 'when you get time' between your plumbing jobs.

Translation = Kenneth cannot find the film

Translation, Apparently Robert is going to tell us what difference it makes. Tell us Robert, why does it matter what kind of rifle was planted in the TSBD? Tell us, if in your opinion, that rifle ever fired a shot that day? but Kenneth knows exactly where the film is, but has no need to link a distraction.

[Kenneth Drew]

Beginning about the 5:00 mark, Roger Craig relates how he read "7.65 Mauser" on the base of the barrel.

The rifle seen lying on the floor, and outlined in red, at the 5:50 mark is the Remington Model 8 brought into the TSBD by the DPD detective.

This film was made some time later and has nothing to do with anything. Total waste of time. Put up the one from 63.

[Robert Prudhomme]

Kenneth, did you not see Roger Craig claiming the impossible, that he read the inscription "7.65 Mauser" on the base of the rifle barrel, from 8 inches away?

P.S.

The one you claim from '63 does not exist.

[Stephen Roy]

Robert and David are right. No such footage has ever emerged.

[Kenneth Drew]

Kenneth, did you not see Roger Craig claiming the impossible, that he read the inscription "7.65 Mauser" on the base of the rifle barrel, from 8 inches away?

P.S.

The one you claim from '63 does not exist.

So you're going to tell me that I didn't see what I said I saw in 1963? I've seen that video before, but what difference does that make, it's not the 63 film. What is your obsession with the rifle? What does it have to do with ANYTHING? There was no rifle fired from the snipers nest that day, so what is the discussion about a rifle about? Are you trying to tell me that the whole deal is you can look at a Carcano and might be able to tell it from a Springfield? Big deal. Do you remember what you saw on tv that day in 1963? Do you think if I told you that you didn't see what you are sure you saw that you would believe me? I know you don't believe anything in the WCR is considered to be factual so why are you trying to argue that the rifle means anything? Why don't you tell us what kind of pistol that tippet was killled with and what type of pistol LHO had, but, don't try to tell me that LHO was anywhere near where tippit was killed.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Kenneth Drew

[Kenneth Drew]

Robert and David are right. No such footage has ever emerged.

Thanks Stephen, but it was there in 1963, I saw it, myself. I have seen it since. I'm not interested in it. It has nothing to do with 'who shot John".

Edited May 31, 2015 by Kenneth Drew

[David Von Pein]

So you're going to tell me that I didn't see what I said I saw in 1963?

It's not uncommon at all for people to think they had seen something on television that we know they could not have possibly seen. But in that person's mind, they would swear on a stack of bibles that they saw it. It's part of their memory forever---even though it's a distorted and inaccurate chunk of their memory.

I provided one such example of this type of false memory when I talked about the woman who said she saw "the whole thing on television", which we know was impossible.

Another example emerged during a radio interview with a JFK author (it was probably in one of Vincent Bugliosi's many interviews in 2007, but I can't recall exactly which interview this occurred in). A caller claimed that he heard Jack Ruby shouting several things to Oswald before Ruby fired the shot that killed LHO. And the caller insisted he heard Ruby's voice as he was watching the live TV coverage of the shooting on November 24, 1963. The caller's memory is vividly clear on this point.

Of course, we know from the videotape TV footage and from the Ike Pappas audio recording that Ruby's voice is never heard once. Ruby never uttered a sound that was audible on either television or radio. But a man has a clear memory of Ruby shouting stuff at Oswald nonetheless. And his false memory will likely never change---even though he probably knows he is wrong.

Edited May 31, 2015 by David Von Pein